Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one.

[Kendodd]

Firstly, the EU have majorly fucked up vaccine deployment, there's no getting around that and no excuse.
But, if people are dying because of a vaccine shortage and vaccine is being sent to us to put into the arms of people very unlikely to die then the vaccine should be rerouted. A few caveats to this, that vaccine should be in people's arms (especially vulnerable people) as fast as possible and not still in shelves. Apparently the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine in storage unapproved when it could already be in arms somewhere else in the world.
I also wish the rest of the world would follow our example and delay the second dose to get more people protected. I think the (brilliant) tactic has been overlooked internationally.
This is a global issue and we should take a global view.
So iabu we should get the vaccine we ordered.
Or ianbu they need it more so should deploy it there.

This is what Boris Johnson said to backbenchers yesterday before he triedcto backpedal: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us

Private companies exporting vaccines to us isn’t the EU “sharing” anymore than private businesses in this country that export various things is us “sharing”.

That said, I see the argument OP is making. However would they even use them? I saw a poll today that said 55% of Germans and 61% of French people think the AZ vaccine is unsafe. There may be people on top of that who think it’s safe but ineffective, due to Macron’s comments on it. I think an absolute priority should be the vaccines going to places where people will actually use them.

We've had lots of Pfizer from the EU, but one of the main components is made here.
We funded the setup of the factory in the Netherlands.
All this aside, surely it's up to the manufacturers to decide where to fulfill orders from according to the contracts they have with countries. The fact is the UK contract with az is much tighter then the EU's

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us
Definitely not the company product is being sent. The EU's behaviour was appalling by threatening the shipment they went in boots first and unfortunately people's lives are the consequences.
It could have easily went the opposite way there would be Nah nah na na from the EU too 😅

@Curiousabout Just because AZ does have other contractual obligations doesn't mean it can breach those it has made with the EU.

Yes AZ have a contract with the EU but they were so determined to reduce the costs, they agreed a lessor contract than the UK did. Even the ex Belgian PM (very pro EU) has publicly stated that the UK contract takes precedent as we were guaranteed a certain number of doses on a certain time frame, the EU one is for them to be supplied in a timely manner.

[quote ichundich]@Curiousabout Just because AZ does have other contractual obligations doesn't mean it can breach those it has made with the EU.[/quote]
The UK contract is much tighter with financial penalties, I believe

The EU contract is a best efforts contract.

I would have thought the EU were better at negotiation than that but there you are

I wonder if your making this statement OP already having had your vaccinations or at least one of them while the rest of us that don’t have any priority have just to sit and wait it out even longer again because of the scare mongering of other leaders? They already have hundreds of thousands of vaccines in fridges that THEY are choosing not to give to their people. That’s one thing our government have got right through this whole shit show and the reason our death rates are and have been falling is because of the vaccine rollout. Sort our own country out first and then help others as a pp has already said.

Absolutely not. This is the first benefit I've seen of us leaving the EU. The companies providing the vaccine are private companies. The EU doesn't get to come in and demand that their contact is fulfilled first if they didn't negotiate such terms.

They have millions of AZ doses they are not using. A couple of EU 27 leaders have made very irresponsible comments about the efficacy of the AZ vaccine and undermined public confidence in it. They have publicly flip flopped over the safety of the AZ vaccine further undermining confidence in it.

Despite all this they want to block exports. The Halix factory in the Netherlands does not yet have EU approval so by their own rules they couldn't use anything produced there yet.

They need to make up their minds about whether they think the AZ vaccine is safe and effective. It would be madness to let them stockpile vaccines they seem undecided about using when there are plenty of countries very happy to use it.

The vaccination solution is global but I really wouldn't want to engage in negotiations with an organisation which is so publicly indicisive and inconsistent.

[quote ichundich]@Curiousabout Just because AZ does have other contractual obligations doesn't mean it can breach those it has made with the EU.[/quote]
And the UK contract?

Can that be breached?

Can you see what I am saying?

At the moment we have a contractual disagreement that is being used as a political football.

Your point can be used by every country in the world whenever a factory has ay issues with output. Then they go back to the contracts OR maybe they start a discussion about a compromise. THAT would be common sense.

But to undermine confidence in the product you want?

To make vague, and not so vague threats?

Boris has made offers and been rejected!

The UK ships out various elements required for manufacture, including vaccine 'starters' and fudning and expertise to set up new factories.

It isn't a wholly one way street.

They're sitting on doses they're not using!

And they've done their best to discourage their (already vaccine-shy) population from trusting the vaccines are safe.

And "exporting" isn't "sharing". That's like me living next door to a supermarket and then claiming I'm sharing groceries with everyone. Geographical location of vaccine factories is irrelevant.

Morally you're right..but no, not until everyone who wants one in this country has had one. If we do reallocated any it should be to 3rd world countries with a poor health care infrastructure, not the EU.

@JamesAnderson

Do you think they would share if the situation was reversed?

Or do you think they would say tough shit mate, you left the EU and chose to go it alone, you get on with it?

Once you've decided the answer to this scenario you've got the answer for the current situation

That's kind of how I'm seeing it tbh.

@SoupDragon

Our death rate has actually been slower for a few months now

And why do you think that might be the case....?

Well, yes, but my limited impression was that the drop in infection rates slightly preceded the vaccination programme and definitely preceded mass vaccination.

If you have further information, I'm all ears.

If you're only going to string it out with dangling hypothetical questions, I'm afraid that I don't think that contributes much.

Unfortunately this is one of those times when we should be a bit selfish. Finish vaccinations here before we look to help out other countries. If we can keep our border tightly shut then there is no reason to give away our vaccines right now. It's one of the few choices our Government have made right.

I agree with you, but then I still see myself as a European and many now don't. Of course priority should be given to the most vulnerable wherever they live.

Unfortunately our Government's strategy of giving everyone their doses so far apart means they have millions who need a second dose. This was possibly a flawed decision because it relies on a constant supply - but we're stuck with it now.

I'm an ardent Remainer. I still think we were insane to ,eave the EU.

If we'd stayed, we would have had 2 choices with vaccine procural: 1. Go with the EU or 2. Make our own contracts (any EU country could have done this.

Nonetheless, I'm staggered by the EU's threats, especially given the fact that they've been dissing and refusing to use the AZ vaccine, which is now our principal vaccine here.

Johnson has handled Covid abominably - the only thing he's got right is the vaccination process. The idea that the UK should blithely hand over its contracted vaccine supplies to the EU is quite astonishing - it's very likely they wouldn't use most of the AZ (as they are not doing right now) and would hold out for Pfizer.

*If they were running out of vaccine because they were using it, and needed more, I'd have more sympathy.

They have vaccines sitting in fridges.*

This

And discrediting Astra Zeneca for petty political reasons has cost lives. That’s on them.

They have about 40m vaccines sitting in the fridge and nobody wants them because of their smear campaign against AZ. Why do they want more when they haven’t even used the ones they’ve got? It’s a bit “dog in the manger”!

They have about 40m vaccines sitting in the fridge and nobody wants them because of their smear campaign against AZ.
I keep seeing this, do they have 40m vaccinations sitting in a fridge wasting? Anyone I know would happily take it, afaik there was clots in some people who were probably prone to clots anyway and it seems they have to investigate, as the investigation found it was safe.
Where are the 40m vaccines? I'm breaking in.

We are a very densely populated country. Space between us is difficult we have suffered quite disproportionately compared to many European countries. Many unvaccinated people in their 30s/40s here are forced to send their kids into crowded schools. We have people coming in/out on flights disproportionately as well. We need to vaccinate everyone in our adult population who wants it.

If we'd stayed, we would have had 2 choices with vaccine procural: 1. Go with the EU or 2. Make our own contracts (any EU country could have done this

They tried didn't they but got blocked or something*

*Can't remember where I read that though.

If we have excess doses (which looks likely) we should surrender them.

But it should be through COVAX, to help the parts of the world in greatest need, and fewest resources to meet that need

If we'd stayed, we would have had 2 choices with vaccine procural: 1. Go with the EU or 2. Make our own contracts (any EU country could have done this.

Sputnik anyone?

Had we stayed we could not have negotiated in parallel with the same pharma companies that the EU were negotiating with. We would only be allowed to do this after contracts to the EU had been finalised. Germany did do this which was apparently a breach of the EU procurement agreement.

www.politico.eu/article/germanys-coronavirus-vaccine-side-deal-at-odds-with-legally-binding-eu-pact/