Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one.

[Kendodd]

Firstly, the EU have majorly fucked up vaccine deployment, there's no getting around that and no excuse.
But, if people are dying because of a vaccine shortage and vaccine is being sent to us to put into the arms of people very unlikely to die then the vaccine should be rerouted. A few caveats to this, that vaccine should be in people's arms (especially vulnerable people) as fast as possible and not still in shelves. Apparently the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine in storage unapproved when it could already be in arms somewhere else in the world.
I also wish the rest of the world would follow our example and delay the second dose to get more people protected. I think the (brilliant) tactic has been overlooked internationally.
This is a global issue and we should take a global view.
So iabu we should get the vaccine we ordered.
Or ianbu they need it more so should deploy it there.

The EU have masses of AZ in storage but because of their political cf behaviour , people don't want to be injected with it. As Professor Van Tam said vaccines are only useful in arms.

Pfizer and AZ are private companies and are right to follow the contracts that they signed imo.

@Kendodd

Fuck 'em.

I'm really shocked at the lack of compassion. About 3,000 people in the EU died from covid yesterday, some posters seem to be positively celebrating this.

How do you think the rest of the world viewed the UK's handing of the pandemic? Do you really think there was sympathy and offers of help or do you think other politicians were grateful that they could say "But Boris..." to make themselves look good?

No actual vaccines exported yet but a big fat pledge from the UK for COVAX

The death rates are highly linked to a country's obesity rate, so the UK should keep the vaccines, I'm afraid.

You complain about our lack of compassion, OP, but given our death toll where's yours? Where's the EU's? They are an extremely rich and privileged bloc sitting on a vaccine stockpile and can bring in lockdown measures. The problem is political: they don't want to be shown up by the UK as we've just left and can't be seen to do well, and they need to find someone else to blame for their abysmal rollout. Hence the constant misinformation and ridiculous accusations of selfishness because we're using the vaccines we developed, tested and paid for but somehow they're not selfish for demanding them from us. I was a rejoiner but I CBA with them now.

@Cabinfever10

I might have agreed with you if the EU was actually using the vaccine that they have but they're not. Due to the German and French governments stating that the AZ vaccine is ineffective and the blood clot scaremongering the EU has thousands (possibly millions) of doses sat on shelves not being used. So no we shouldn't risk our population just because the EU are morons who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery

Absolutely

@BiggerBoat1

I agree with you, but then I still see myself as a European and many now don't. Of course priority should be given to the most vulnerable wherever they live.

Unfortunately our Government's strategy of giving everyone their doses so far apart means they have millions who need a second dose. This was possibly a flawed decision because it relies on a constant supply - but we're stuck with it now.

Do you realise that if people had had their second dose after 3 weeks, we wouldn’t have given anything like the number of first doses that we’ve given?

@Kendodd

I take most of the points on board and don't disagree.

Our death rate is falling fast though and theirs is rising, they're our neighbours, we're got to help them.

Have you not read the stuff about them having plenty of vaccine, but not using it? That’s the problem. They could have all the vaccines in the world and they’d still have awful vaccination rates.

The rollout in France is a mess.
I can see plenty of appointments in two weeks online but am not allowed to take one as I'm under 70 with no comorbidities. Meanwhile a friend in another dept has had her vaccine because she's over 55.
And the vaccine centre still shuts for lunch from 12 until 1pm.

OP, you appear to be wilfully ignoring all the posts telling you about the millions of jabs the EU are not using? Why is all your compassion for the wealthy bloc and not developing countries without vaccines that we have pledged free support to via COVAX? It's mighty convenient to ignore evidence to the contrary of your pre-existing beliefs I suppose.

OP, you appear to be wilfully ignoring all the posts telling you about the millions of jabs the EU are not using?

I'm not. I said in my very first post as long as they were used as fast as possible and later said that I agreed with India having an export ban until they've caught up. I get your wider point about poor countries though. Somebody said something on another thread ages ago that stayed with me. "Brown children die in their millions and nobody gives a shit, old white people dying though, stop the world!"

@SoupDragon

Look at the U.K. death rate compared to the EU.

Yes, we have certainly been highly incentivised to sort vaccinations given that we've fucked everything else up aroundCovid!

How do you think the rest of the world viewed the UK's handing of the pandemic? Do you really think there was sympathy and offers of help or do you think other politicians were grateful that they could say "But Boris..." to make themselves look good?

Exactly and all the hideous posts waving ‘125k’ around to prove how crap U.K. are, as if it’s a competition.

Now production of vaccine here has been swift and still negative commentary for same posters.

Wearing

How do you think the rest of the world viewed the UK's handing of the pandemic? Do you really think there was sympathy and offers of help or do you think other politicians were grateful that they could say "But Boris..." to make themselves look good?

Do you really think anyone is 'grateful' for covid? Or our appalling death rate? Finally, we're getting something right and are even in a position to help others who are now really struggling.

The U.K. is helping in many ways isn’t it op?

Covax etc initial development and setting up

We will donate extra supply

The vaccines don't belong to the EU. They belong to private companies who have made contracts to supply them to various governments. Our government simply got to the shop first.

The EU is sitting on millions of AZ that most people don’t want to be given because of their
Propaganda against AZ.

So, give them even more of that?

No. Mostly because of their appalling behaviour of the politicians. You don’t reward a child for having a tantrum as it only exacerbates the behaviour.

If they want to stop slinging mud and talk about it reasonably then maybe.

I’ve said this a million times on MN but I do think things would have been completely different if they had just picked up the phone and asked for some assistance.

There was no need for any of this.

This is all moot point anyway. The vaccinations do not belong to them, or us. They belong to the companies which are manufacturing them.

I'm really shocked at the lack of compassion. I am not even a tiny bit shocked.
I'm not interested in football myself but from the vaccine cheers it is easy to see why football supporters unit against England, you never hear the end of their self praise after a win.

I also think most have forgotten the actions we received from the EU politicians when we were in the grip of the last wave.

No help. Just derision, article 16 and the closure of the ports... as well as the smear campaign against the only NOT FOR PROFIT vaccine.

I am as pro-EU and anti-Brexit as they come, but no, we should not ignore our contract just because the EU is refusing to use stocks of the AZ vaccine that it already has. Those saying we should share, well why just with the EU - surely if we should share it should be with the whole world? Doesn't really work, does it.

And because it bears repeating - AZ is not making a profit from their vaccine. FFS, if that isn't bloody generous, I don't know what is.

@Throckmorton

And because it bears repeating - AZ is not making a profit from their vaccine. FFS, if that isn't bloody generous, I don't know what is.

The endless criticism received will go a long way to ensuring they won’t do at cost for the next pandemic

Indeed. Talk about people cutting off their own noses to spite their face!