Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one.

[Kendodd]

Firstly, the EU have majorly fucked up vaccine deployment, there's no getting around that and no excuse.
But, if people are dying because of a vaccine shortage and vaccine is being sent to us to put into the arms of people very unlikely to die then the vaccine should be rerouted. A few caveats to this, that vaccine should be in people's arms (especially vulnerable people) as fast as possible and not still in shelves. Apparently the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine in storage unapproved when it could already be in arms somewhere else in the world.
I also wish the rest of the world would follow our example and delay the second dose to get more people protected. I think the (brilliant) tactic has been overlooked internationally.
This is a global issue and we should take a global view.
So iabu we should get the vaccine we ordered.
Or ianbu they need it more so should deploy it there.

YABU. Finish the vaccinations here, then help the rest of the world. We're a county of less than 70m people, the EU is nearly half a billion. The number of doses we need is tiny compared the numbers the EU need. Plus, the EU are bullies who are trying to mess with exports, despite us having the valid contracts and agreements to have the vaccines exported to Britain.

Look at the U.K. death rate compared to the EU.

Our government played a blinder making sure we had enough vaccines for the population. The EU didn't sort themselves out - they don't get to now divert our vaccines to try and rectify their mistakes. Also I thought any surplus vaccines from the UK would be going to developing countries so its not like we're going to be sitting on unused stocks refusing to share

The only thing the EU should have been saying to the vaccine companies is 'what can we do to help and make your life easier'. To a certain extent I agree that we should also be picking up the phone and saying to the EU what can we do to help (now that we are in a more secure situation) but while still keeping our schedules on track to fulfil the commitments to the part of the UK population who are not yet vaccinated and second doses, and to vaccinate children to do our bit to prevent variants thriving. But supporting COVAX is probably the more important priority.

Don't the UK support COVAX more than the enormous EU? We already are doing more than them.

I think it's a bit above my pay grade to dole out advice on sharing vaccines like a mum arbitrating over a bag of sweets.

But as a businesswoman, I know that you can only make plans for yourself. Not through not caring for others, but because it's simply impossible to plan for everyone else's actions.

I also know that expending effort to deliberately block or undermine someone else's efforts is a waste of energy.

British people are no MORE worthy of the vaccine than others, but they are also no LESS worthy.

If European countries (not the EU) had great vaccine programs ready to roll, only lacking the doses, then maybe there's an argument. But they don't.

Yabu.
Firstly, they have some vaccines but don't want to use them. What we have would make a drop in the large EU ocean.
Secondly, I want my vaccine! I have lived through the past year and one of the worst death rates in the world. I want to be able to hug my teenagers without holding my breath and worrying. I want to see my parents whom I haven't seen in two years; They are abroad, not in EU. I don't care one bit if that makes me selfish. I waited patiently for everyone in this country more needy than me to be vaccinated. Now that it's my turn, I am meant to be happy to give it away to the EU? A group of countries who had as much opportunity and funding to secure their own vaccine but have irresponsible politicians disparaging it. No.

I might have agreed with you if the EU was actually using the vaccine that they have but they're not. Due to the German and French governments stating that the AZ vaccine is ineffective and the blood clot scaremongering the EU has thousands (possibly millions) of doses sat on shelves not being used. So no we shouldn't risk our population just because the EU are morons who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery

@SoupDragon

Look at the U.K. death rate compared to the EU.

Our death rate has actually been slower for a few months now - we just got ourselves off to a horrible start.

I don't know the details - for instance, I don't know how many of the vulnerable groups we have left to die.

In an ideal world it would benefit from vaccinating the vulnerable first.
As the UK done really well and the EU fucked it up it won't improve.
I'm only bracing myself and hoping to avoid losing loved ones this wave.

Do you think they would share if the situation was reversed?

Or do you think they would say tough shit mate, you left the EU and chose to go it alone, you get on with it?

Once you've decided the answer to this scenario you've got the answer for the current situation

If they were running out of vaccine because they were using it, and needed more, I'd have more sympathy.

They have vaccines sitting in fridges.

When they've used it all, then they can ask to keep more.

The vaccine doesn’t ‘belong’ to the U.K. or the EU. It belongs to private companies who have manufacturing plants in various places in the world and are fulfilling their orders based on the contracts negotiated with each country. There has no ‘letting’ to be done. It’s not ‘ours’ or the EUs. This is frankly a bonkers and very dangerous precedent that a country or EU can declare ownership of something purely because it’s made in their country. It’s utter madness

The immediately hostile EU response, plus the equally odd response from some of Europe's leaders, has made this into a no win / all lose situation. It doesn't matter what the inequities were, ther are supposed to be politicians and diplomats!

Someone has to start actively trying to calm things down. Boris et al cannot do it, it seems. So someone in Europe iis going to have to!

All we can do is hope that common sense is regained tomorrow!

It should go to whoever is sticking it in peoples arms. Try and send it to the countries with the highest death rates first maybe.

@JamesAnderson

Do you think they would share if the situation was reversed?

Or do you think they would say tough shit mate, you left the EU and chose to go it alone, you get on with it?

Once you've decided the answer to this scenario you've got the answer for the current situation

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us

It would speed up the EU vaccine programme by 1 week and slow ours down by months.

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us
Quite. The UK has exported zero vaccine doses, the EU has exported 45 million, many to the UK. But that doesn't suite the brexit narrative of many, does it?

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us The manufacturers have been trying to meet their contracts. The EU/European countries don't own the vaccines until they have bought and paid for them... and that comes after OKing production.

AZ, Oxford and the UK government made a reliable vaccine available to anyone who asked, at cost, lots of support to set up factories etc. What else should have been done?

@Effic AZ has made a contract with the EU about how many doses it's supposed to deliver (400 million). So yes, the EU does have a 'right' to the vaccines it has ordered.

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us

No, the EU have not been philanthropists sending us the vaccine. We have bought through private companies the same vaccines the UK funded r&d for. That may be the EU line to cover up incompetence but European leaders - Johnson, Merkel, Martin etc all agree/accept that to be the case and have made statements to that effect in the last day or so.

Our vulnerable people matter too and it's heartening to see the recent focus on getting the vaccine out to people with learning disabilities who suffered disproportionately from the pandemic. Or should we risk their lives and give the vaccines we paid for to German MPs or Hungarian Olympic athletes instead? That's the choice. Even if we were to give our vaccines where they're possibly needed more, the EU wouldn't even be on the list imo. Other countries are more in need hence our Covax funding. EU political posturing and blustering to mitigate a backlash doesn't wash with me.

They have been sharing with us, that's the point. They've exported loads to us

You mean the companies have been providing the doses we ordered and paid for? That's not sharing.

[quote ichundich]@Effic AZ has made a contract with the EU about how many doses it's supposed to deliver (400 million). So yes, the EU does have a 'right' to the vaccines it has ordered. [/quote]
How does that differ from the UK's earlier contracts?

Our death rate has actually been slower for a few months now

And why do you think that might be the case....?

[quote ichundich]@Effic AZ has made a contract with the EU about how many doses it's supposed to deliver (400 million). So yes, the EU does have a 'right' to the vaccines it has ordered. [/quote]
And the UK contract is what?