Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

@ThornAmongstRoses You're absolutely right about the likely effect of lockdown on him - it's been pretty desolate.
He needs to wait - a year even.

& every time BIL is rude to him or frosty it will be a kick in the teeth and confirm it was only ever about the money!

@Mix56

I couldn't resist it, I had a look & the sea temperature is around 6°C in Skegness today

Well it is March to be fair. I don’t imagine out of season wild swimming is one of his aspirations!

It's very common here/more often than not, when this sort of arrangement comes up before the planners, it's turned down if the unit is to be residential. They don't like overpopulation by the back door.

Where would he live upon his return? If he can give his DD £90k, buy the cabin thing and have it built, give his son £20k I think he could go on a cruise and buy himself a nice little flat or you can buy a lifetime interest in a house for a fraction of the cost to buy outright and spend what's left having a good time and die happy knowing there is nothing for his children to argue about.

Ancientgran, there isn't enough money for all that. He's only got £250k, once he gives dd £90k, spends £100k (?) on cabin, gives son £20, he'll only have £40k left.

Best he keeps his house.

@Mix56

I couldn't resist it, I had a look & the sea temperature is around 6°C in Skegness today

Skegness, as is commonly known, is SO bracing!

]grin]

@Turquoisesea

& every time BIL is rude to him or frosty it will be a kick in the teeth and confirm it was only ever about the money!

SIL's partner can throw him out at any time.

On a whim.

He has no comeback.

(This is if he ever even gets to live in the shed)

I think @MargosKaftan ‘s idea is a good one.

Put it in an email copied to FIL, sister in Law and her partner , detailing exactly in writing what you understand the plan to be, and checking whether you have understood correctly.

You could also ask what the back-up arrangements are if any step goes wrong, given that you don’t have a spare bedroom.

Worst case scenario

DF gives £90K to Sil and her DP (not even husband) so they can buy a bigger house.
DF buys shed in garden (and pays out more for plumbing, electrics and fighting planning inspectors to get permission) for £50K.
DF doesn't get to see much of his GC or babysits.
SIL and her DP break up and she finds she's not on the deeds. Nor does the garden cabin belong to FiL or her.
DF finds himself casting around for a flat for £110K providing of course no other expenses were incurred and the OP and her DH continue to refuse his £25K.
SiL blames it on him and demands to live with him with the 3 GC.

He is only 65 for crying out loud. Flat by the sea? Stay where he is and organise visits to both sides of the family?

Very glad he's speaking to a solicitor. Hope it's a good one.

He could buy a lovely 2 bed property with separate lounge in Skegness, room for op and family to come and visit and close enough to his DD to be the free childcare that they want.

I don't know if this will be any use to you, but I have a friend who lives in a wooden lodge in a residential lodge park The lodge is lovely, has 2 bedrooms, electricity, is connected to the lodge calor gas supply, and has central heating. It has quite a large footprint though.

Friend paid ~£90 K to buy the lodge, in the NE next to a river. There are, of course, services charges.

It sounds like the sort of place that might be found in Skegness. Would this be an option? Lodges depreciate, as others have mentioned.

She is forbidden to rent hers out, which I expect is usually the case. But there will be other sites with cabins for hire in the summer, he could try out living this way.

Whatever happens, you have definitely done the right thing in telling him you cannot accommodate him.

I've been to Mablethorpe today. It's just down the coast from Skegvegas and I live just up the coast from them both. Winter months there is absolutely nothing doing.
Summer you cant do anything because the tourists take over.

Hes going to be very lonely in his cabin without proper family support.

I think you've done the right thing. He has all the facts. Hes sought legal advice. Hes an adult and all you can really do is step back and pick up the pieces if needed.

I haven't seen anyone post this but someone a few pages ago mentioned that it seem FIL wants to rid himself of all his money. He isn't ill or end of life is he? Might not tell you husband and or realize he can't give give his money away.

OP,
The house being sold cheaply, how cheaply?

Percentage wise?

I just wonder is the EA taking advantage of him.

Age Action might have some advice.

His EA is definitely not looking after his best interests....unless he has sold it to a friend on the cheap.

It happens.

Wouldn't it be lovely if he sold the house and went on a world cruise before making sure there is no inheritance for anyone to fight about.

Yea. A world cruise....

That was then. This is now. COVID!! No cruises happening at the moment I don't think.

I'm 66, just. No way in hell would I give up the roof over my head or impose myself on my DS's living space OR would relish the thought of living in a glorified garden shed with people who've barely taken time out to visit over the years - and a family member who actively dislikes me. As well as a place where you have to start from scratch building up a social circle. In times of COVID lockdown.....

As for meeting a lovely man living in a garden shed, I'd run a mile he might want to impose on my living space

OP, I think it's really good that you (as a team) have put your foot down on him moving in with you, however permanent or temporary.
It's just not fair on any of you to have to rearrange your lives for someone, family member yes but still, who is making such stupid and stubborn decisions. Why should you as a family be paying the price for this?

Anyway, I hope it all sorts itself out.

This is if he ever even gets to live in the shed

Which is just a myth at the moment. Bottom line. There is no shed.

Reminds me of fairy stories. "And they all lived happily ever after".

They don't like overpopulation by the back door
they dont like people avoiding council tax and utility charges more like!

I don't understand why he's ignoring how miserable this situation will be for him. I love the ocean too, but I wouldn't want to live in the back garden of a person who disliked me and resented my presence just to be by the ocean. Not even if that back garden was in Tahiti.

If he carries through with this he'll be supping sorrow with a long spoon.

I don't know if I've read this wrong but your sil is expecting a new baby but also about to be promoted? The promotion hasn't happened yet, and I guess is probably is unlikely to happen until she comes back from maternity leave?
It does sound like your fil feels things have gone too far to pull out. Unless your in laws have made an offer on a house then things haven't gone too far yet to pull out. I think they need to buy a house which they can afford without fils contribution. Fil needs to be able to find a house either to rent or buy for himself. I think he will find her is lonelier living at the end of a garden in a cabin not being able to join in with his grandkids lives. Well, unless he is looking after them as unpaid care.

My fil, when he was alive, bought a house but wanted a way to earn some money. We came up with an idea for him to have a cabin at the bottom of his own garden to live in and rent out the house. He was all for it to the point he bought the cabin, and then it all stalled. It all came out after my dh fell out with him that he never wanted to do this, but he never once said. It would have saved so much time and effort had he been upfront with us.

I think you are right in that the protracted lockdowns have probably not helped your FILs state of mind. I also hate to be sexist but you often do find men are less good at living alone than women if they are bereaved relatively early which is the case with him if he is only 65. They are often less good at cultivating supportive friendships than women. I am not sure where he lives now but I also wonder if he has some idealistic idea of what living by the sea is like although it is ironic that should come from me who lives in Cornwall. He really needs to think this through as I get the feeling he has not thought of the pitfalls and only picked up on his DDs wishes who seems to have a vested interest in him selling up and dividing his wordly possessions even though he may have a good 20 years or more of an active life. I do hope he rethinks this and OP you come back and tell us it was a mad idea and in a few weeks time he will either be considering a small place near you or in Skegness but still retaining his independence and not be relying on the goodwill of people who do not want him around.

Making sandcastles seems the ultimate metaphor. His cabin, if ever built, will be one.

I hope your fil listens to the legal advisor. Surely they will tell him this is a hair brained scheme and disaster for everyone including your sil if he needs residential care.

He sounds a bit lost: he's had two major life events of being widowed and now retirement and is in LaLaLand about his future. Must be utterly horrible watching him sleepwalk into something that has disaster written all over it.

I just can’t stop worrying about what kind of lonely life he’s going to have up there, ok yes, he will get to be near the coast and not living alone (so he reckons) but is that really worth sacrificing his life with us and sacrificing his financial stability and independence?

As the previous poster said, he’s sleepwalking into this nightmare because his rose tinted spectacles won’t let him see the reality of what it’s going to be like

The thought of him up there, being shunned and pushed out really upsets me