Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

If sil isn't married what happens if they split regarding the house?

Thorn If FIL bought his own smaller property rather than the cabin, he could rectify the inheritance situation, if he wants to, by leaving your DH £90k more than SIL in his will. Solicitor would be able to advise on that.

I am guessing there was a reason that SIL did not get on with MIL and consequently saw little of PIL but somehow miraculously wants FIL to stump up cash by making himself homeless but does not want him to live in the house he is to help her buy? The brass neck cheek of it. Why is it your DHs responsibility to sort out the problem of where his Dad will live when FIL is obviously favouring his DD financially and has been so secretive and manipulative?

In every case I know of where multi generation families live together it has ended badly and usually once the greedy son or daughter has their hands on their parents dosh they then become an inconvenience. As SIL hates him and his DD has never made an effort before and does not even seem inclined to help FIL with move or finding him something near her to rent I would bet it is only his money she wants.

I just hope your FIL sees sense and either downsizes and buys his own place either near you or near his DD, although I don't think she will have a lot to do with him whether or not he gives her money or alternatively stays put until he has thought things through.

It might be an idea for the OP to make a list of questions to ask a solicitor from this thread - like the one above about what happens if the SIL outlives the DD.

It might also be a good idea for @ThornAmongstRoses to make a 3rd thread if she needs ongoing support, as this one is rapidly filling up!

I think this is actually a really positive although upsetting development. The FIL has finally agreed to get some legal advice, the SIL has admitted out loud that she doesn’t want him staying with them in the new bigger house because her partner won’t like it. The should make it abundantly clear to your FIL how involved he would really be in their lives. He will be left alone 90% of the time at the bottom of the garden in an area he doesn’t know with no friends or other family nearby. He will have given up any financial autonomy so he would be unable to move out or away.

It’s just so sad for your DH that his relationship with his dad will be soured by his dad’s secrecy, total disregard for his son’s feelings and selfish assumption of his son’s endless hospitality whilst demonstrating such overt favouritism for his unscrupulous daughter. It’s hard to imagine how the SIL thought she was ever going to get away with it, or to imagine that she cares one iota about her dad longterm happiness and financial security.. Whilst the child who has loved and supported him and been in his life constantly for the last 4 years since his wife died is left feeling used and rejected.

Apologies if already mentioned, but what happens if in the unfortunate event the SIL dies before the FIL?

This is a very good point. Young people do die. We tend not to think about it, because it is comparatively rare these days, but they do.

Also - if SIL and her partner split then at best she would have capital from only half the property (I think a PP mentioned this)

@CaraherEIL

I think this is actually a really positive although upsetting development. The FIL has finally agreed to get some legal advice, the SIL has admitted out loud that she doesn’t want him staying with them in the new bigger house because her partner won’t like it. The should make it abundantly clear to your FIL how involved he would really be in their lives. He will be left alone 90% of the time at the bottom of the garden in an area he doesn’t know with no friends or other family nearby. He will have given up any financial autonomy so he would be unable to move out or away.

It’s just so sad for your DH that his relationship with his dad will be soured by his dad’s secrecy, total disregard for his son’s feelings and selfish assumption of his son’s endless hospitality whilst demonstrating such overt favouritism for his unscrupulous daughter. It’s hard to imagine how the SIL thought she was ever going to get away with it, or to imagine that she cares one iota about her dad longterm happiness and financial security.. Whilst the child who has loved and supported him and been in his life constantly for the last 4 years since his wife died is left feeling used and rejected.

All of this screams trouble to me - SIL and her DP not wanting FIL in the new house - for various reasons so FIL would be banished to the cabin...

It's good that FIL is finally getting legal advice.

What might be a good idea is a face to face meeting with FIL with OP and her DH and for them to both say something along the lines of (buy a new house...) but also that if he wasn't to move in with SIL etc then he could 'help her out' financially but also reinforce to him that relationships wouldn't break down etc (even if they would) if he didn't go along with their plans.

OP how about asking Fil to look at all the responses on this thread. There’s such good advice on here allowing him to see the big picture, rather than the false picture of bliss his daughter has painted for him. She’s having him over and he needs to take the blinkers off before it’s too late.

The son-in-law is going to forget all about the 90k as soon as it's spent. Which means all FIL is going to get in the garden is ignored at best, treated like shit at worst.

He thinks he's buying love and relationship but he's actually buying resentment and a guilty feeling of indebtedness.

The shed will have to be replaced at least once in his expected lifetime. very good point, at 80+ he is going to be living in a wooden cottage shed that starts to leak........
There will be no shed imho, they need to find a suitable house/garden/planning/drains etc (or is FIL supposed to traipse in to the main house in flip flops & dressing gown in winter for a shower ? or potter in for a pee every hour ? ) they will soon discover the plan doesn't work.
There may be no baby either, & this will be blamed on DH, for causing stress

It will be a Sense & Sensibility type situation, with son-in-law being Fanny Dashwood and sister being John Dashwood.

They will do less and less for FIL whilst making a big deal of the dregs they give him.

He isn't even the sil. Sil isn't married to him.

I feel so sad for FIL, it's obvious that he's being horribly emotionally manipulated over money by his own daughter. Anyone else getting visions of her and BIL hosting parties in their swanky new house and FIL being told to stay out of the way in his cabin?

Another thought, if fil does find a new partner would she want to move into the cabin? (as if she'd want to!). If he buys his own property at least he'll maintain autonomy over his living decisions.

That meant to read 'would she be allowed to move into the cabin'. If bil can't stand fil then he's unlikely to tolerate fils new partner

Where is his self-respect? He's giving 90k to someone who doesn't like him, wants nothing to do with him and will make him sleep in a shed in the garden.

@ThornAmongstRoses Does FiL know that SiL's DH is apparently NOT keen for him to be 'living with them'? Yes, I know he'll have his 'cabin' but he'll be needing to spend time in the house unless it has a bathroom and some sort of kitchen facilities. I don't know a whole lot about these 'cabins' but of those I googled, not many of them appeared to be 'fully self contained'.

No doubt FiLis picturing jolly family dinners and days spent together in harmony. Instead he's going to have a Son-iL who is resenting his presence and no doubt making it clear to Sis-iL. The 'atmosphere' could well become intolerable, let alone some type of a 'to do' resulting in them either asking him to leave or him wanting 'out'. And then what happens? Is he going to get some type of legal 'you can't ever evict me' agreement? Will they agree to put his name on this new house as security? If it all goes tits up, he may very well have lost his financial 'stake' to buying a place of his own and be stuck renting for the rest of his life.

I'd mentioned it above, but does he have the ability without selling his house to buy a small flat in Skeg? Or to sell and buy 2 small flats (one in Skeg, one near you) and just go back and forth? That way both families get a fair share of his time and attention.

He needs to think of more than just the financial security aspect in giving a large sum of his money away. He needs to think of the emotional aspect as well as the actual security of the arrangement.

@Hohofortherobbers

Another thought, if fil does find a new partner would she want to move into the cabin? (as if she'd want to!). If he buys his own property at least he'll maintain autonomy over his living decisions.

As someone of an age of a prospective lady friend of Fil, would I entertain moving into someone else’s garden? No way. But I wouldn’t move in with him if he lived in Blenheim Palace. Most 60 something women lucky enough not to be encumbered with a man would be very reluctant to relinquish their independence.

FIL has always known he wouldn’t be fully welcomed into the home of SIL. SIL’s partner’s disdain for us all is well acknowledged. FIL knows he is not liked by BIL, he has known it for many years, and so he has always been aware that he will be moving into the back garden of someone who will do little more than tolerate him.

The two factors behind this are that he wants to live by the coast and he doesn’t want to live on his own. I said that he will still technically be living on his own as he won’t actually be in the same property as SIL, but he still feels that being at the bottom of the garden is step closer to not living alone (for some reason that doesn’t read right grammatically but I’m sure you get what I’m trying to say).

Between FIL wanting to live near the coast and not wanting to live alone it’s made things very easy for SIL (and her partner) to get what they want under the guise of doing it for FIL.

That’s how it seems to us anyway.

I feel sorry for the old man. It sounds like his daughter is using him but the title of this thread doesn't indicate that the OP is really putting him first. It's all about his money, bad enough when the fighting about money starts before the funeral, even worse when it starts before the death.

Wouldn't it be lovely if he sold the house and went on a world cruise before making sure there is no inheritance for anyone to fight about.

I do feel sorry for him even though he tried to be sneaky with you OP. He surely realises it's a shakedown but it hurts his pride to admit it.

I just can't get over the gigantic balls of your SIL and her partner admitting they don't want him staying with them, even temporarily, whilst holding their hands out for 90 grand.

@ThornAmongstRoses

FIL has always known he wouldn’t be fully welcomed into the home of SIL. SIL’s partner’s disdain for us all is well acknowledged. FIL knows he is not liked by BIL, he has known it for many years, and so he has always been aware that he will be moving into the back garden of someone who will do little more than tolerate him.

The two factors behind this are that he wants to live by the coast and he doesn’t want to live on his own. I said that he will still technically be living on his own as he won’t actually be in the same property as SIL, but he still feels that being at the bottom of the garden is step closer to not living alone (for some reason that doesn’t read right grammatically but I’m sure you get what I’m trying to say).

Between FIL wanting to live near the coast and not wanting to live alone it’s made things very easy for SIL (and her partner) to get what they want under the guise of doing it for FIL.

That’s how it seems to us anyway.

Would a retirement place near SIL with communal areas where he could socialise not be a better compromise for him? He can still give SIL the 90k if he so wishes, but it'll be a better quality of life for him.

I just can't get over the gigantic balls of your SIL and her partner admitting they don't want him staying with them, even temporarily, whilst holding their hands out for 90 grand.

They didn’t need to admit it out loud though as FIL would have known from Day 1 that’s how things would be. It wouldn’t even have occurred to FIL to think otherwise.

I feel really sorry for him too - and I’m just aghast that he’s willing to put himself in such a vulnerable position and in the hands of someone who has never made him feel welcome in their family.

All I can hope for is that the legal advice makes him re-think things. If not, then me and DH will have no option but to step back and watch things unfurl