Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

Skegness is horrible in winter. Summer is bearable but in winter it's cold, barren and depressing. At least in summer it's depressing with mild amusement and sunny.

This is all kinds of crazy. Your FIL is basically leaving himself with no assets. I’m sure to him it might sound lovely but what if it doesn’t work out? What if him and his dd’s partner don’t get on? He’s leaving himself totally stuck with no ability to move. He’d be much better off finding himself a place but it seems the main driver is SIL needing a bigger house for her new child. The awful thing is, if it doesn’t work it’ll no doubt fall to you.

If he wants to move to Skegness that's his call. But I would send him an email laying out your reservations about him living in a cabin in her garden. Just bullet-point it, concentrate on the financial implications, not emotion. Send him some links to properties he could buy there, while also giving his daughter some money towards a new property.
I'd send her a non-emotive email too, pointing out how financially vulnerable her dad will be if it all goes tits up. He is only 65!!

I think what Charley suggested is a good idea.
I would send an email detailing all your concerns for future wellbeing but do it in an objective way as though you understand these points haven't been considered.

Father in law is relatively young, of sound mind, if all this goes belly up it's not up to you to pick up the pieces and everyone involved needs to realise this .and not bank on you and your husbands good nature to bail him out with unlimited holidays in your house when tension arises in their set up

Bet it's gonna be a potting shed!

I can’t see what can be done now to be honest - it’s up to FIL if he wants to financially support one of his children more than the other and that is in effect what he is doing. He’s giving daughter a large sum of money to enable her to buy a larger house, but not doing the same for his son. This type of situation usually causes upset unless there is a genuine, deserving reason why one sibling needs help eg sudden redundancy, which the rest would support and understand. Ultimately your husband cannot expect to inherit - none of us should - but what your SIL has done is find a way to ensure that she has the money by getting it now. If FIL stays alive for more than a few years I don’t think that money could be clawed back by the revenue or local authorities for care - although I might be wrong. But it does look as though your SIL has found a way to in effect get her inheritance now.
Your options would seem to be to call her out on it, which is unlikely to go well or change things, or just accept it. To be honest I don’t think I could sit there and accept that SIL gets a lot of money while DH gets to house FIL free of charge for months. I would put it to FIL that that is grossly unfair.
Did your DH explain to your FIL what SIL has done from his point of view or am I over interpreting and DH doesn’t actually think this ?

You’ve tried OP. If he chooses not to listen now, there may be time for rumination when he’s living with you.
If it was me I’d just be reinforcing getting legal advice whilst FIL is under your roof.

My grandma’s friend sold her house to her son on the agreement she could live there with him until death. The son was divorced from his wife and his children were in their 20s.
The son died unexpectedly, the children inherited the house and sold it, leaving their Granny homeless (if think she ended up in a home).

If SIL hasn't sold her house yet, maybe suggest he rents & goes for a winter first to see if he likes it... there'e no immediate hurry, (baby will not take up a lot of room.)
Have you asked him if she is prepared to cover all his caring until the end ? that could be a quarter of a century !

I’ve not seen the first thread, but it’s got disaster written all over it for multiple reasons.
How do you make him see this? I don’t know

I totally agree with Charley, it seems he doesn’t want to understand how many legal implications there are and neither does she, they are using him as a cash cow to get a bigger house. I would be amazed if the cabin ever happens!

I would do as Charley50 suggests, putting the bullet points into an email to him and asking him to confirm that he has read it and suggest that he gets some legal advise - he is likely using a solicitor for house sale, so can speak with them.

I would also point out that you won’t be his back up plan if things fall apart in the future for any of the possible reasons (I wouldn’t be accommodating him to start with, esp since it inconveniences your family, but that is your choice).

Also agree with Charley to send the SIL an email, if nothing else it will highlight to her that you will not be his back-up plan, and that she may have pulled the wool over her dads eyes, but not yours!

He needs to tell her that he will want to see what the "mobile home" looks liken the flesh before he gives them any money, visit the showroom, know if they need planning permission, & the costs of drains & elec to the other end of the garden etc.

What security will he have once he hands over the money? Is he confident they will actually build the cabin? Are YOU confident they will actually follow through?

SIL could end up with a nice big house and you could end up with FIL living with you permanently.

It sounds as though he has got carried away with the 'idea' of it all without taking into account any of the realities of the situation. He seems to think it is going to be really easy to find somewhere suitable where they can get planning and that this process takes but a matter of weeks. Either that or they are going to lie, sling it up anyway and feel the full force of the planning department when a neighbour complains.
As I said at the end of the previous thread, I hope you have managed to plant a seed of doubt in his mind or at least enough of one so he at least discusses it with other people. Most sensible people will be able to see the potential pitfalls of this plan.
I would be tempted to print off loads of properties from rightmove that he could buy and live in, whilst still gifting his daughter 90k. Be a lot less stressful for his daughter who is pregnant, if he did this, he can then move very quickly and be in Skegness by the beginning of Summer.
He could give her 70k and she could have this 4 bed with a mortgage of only £500 a month and he would have enough left over for his own bungalow.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/102782771#/

I think at this stage you and your DH need to have a conversation together about the way forward. Of course you don’t want to see FIL out on the street, but you need a fixed timeline as to how long he can stay with you.

Having him stay indefinitely WILL put pressure on your marriage and WILL be disruptive for your children. You need to decide who is the priority - FIL or your children. Then you need to set out in no uncertain terms to FIL that these are the conditions for him staying with you and reiterate again that you do not support his decision to not take legal advice. He needs to know that you do not agree with what is happening, because you know that he/SIL will try to pin some blame on you when it all goes pear shaped in the not too distant future.

@Maray1967

I can’t see what can be done now to be honest - it’s up to FIL if he wants to financially support one of his children more than the other and that is in effect what he is doing. He’s giving daughter a large sum of money to enable her to buy a larger house, but not doing the same for his son. This type of situation usually causes upset unless there is a genuine, deserving reason why one sibling needs help eg sudden redundancy, which the rest would support and understand. Ultimately your husband cannot expect to inherit - none of us should - but what your SIL has done is find a way to ensure that she has the money by getting it now. If FIL stays alive for more than a few years I don’t think that money could be clawed back by the revenue or local authorities for care - although I might be wrong. But it does look as though your SIL has found a way to in effect get her inheritance now. Your options would seem to be to call her out on it, which is unlikely to go well or change things, or just accept it. To be honest I don’t think I could sit there and accept that SIL gets a lot of money while DH gets to house FIL free of charge for months. I would put it to FIL that that is grossly unfair. Did your DH explain to your FIL what SIL has done from his point of view or am I over interpreting and DH doesn’t actually think this ?

sadly you are wrong regarding the clawback, and this is what also leaves SIL in a predicament that THEY MAY NOT BE AWARE OF.

7 YEARS FOR INHERITANCE TAX, BUT AS LONG AS THEY WISH TO LOOK BACK FOR SOCIAL CARE and if he is living in a cabin in his daughters garden thats going to look dodgy as fuck to them and they will wonder how he came to be there. When they discover he has sold a house for quarter of a million they will view it as deliberately giving his money away to avoid care fees, even if that wasnt the ultimate aim.

I would be tempted to say that he cannot stay with you until you have been with him to a solicitor and you know that his assets are protected. Surely nobody could take offence at that. Solicitor may also know other stuff.

And unlike a house, investment in a cabin is only going to depreciate, so its not even a wise investment

Can he get on the deeds for % of the house ? that way at least he could have some escape route

and they absolutely will need planning permission.

Ours took 3 years for something smaller.

Shit that's awful. He is being used to facilitate SiLs wishes to grow her family and get a bigger house. I think I can guess who is going to be looking after the baby when she returns to work. What a giant mess. And I can see why he would feel he has to stick to the plan now she actually is pregnant. Is there anyone else, a friend or anything, you can get to speak to him about this, maybe he will take more notice from someone who isnt in the family?
It's shit for your husband, he is suddenly switching so that all his time and resources and assets are given to his sister while your family are left with absolutely nothing. How often do you think uou will see him after he has moved?

@NettleTea

I would be tempted to say that he cannot stay with you until you have been with him to a solicitor and you know that his assets are protected. Surely nobody could take offence at that. Solicitor may also know other stuff.

And unlike a house, investment in a cabin is only going to depreciate, so its not even a wise investment

I think that it is a very good idea - I would offer to pay for a consultation with a solicitor if he is reluctant.

@Mix56

Can he get on the deeds for % of the house ? that way at least he could have some escape route

This is the minimum that should happen. Including the £90K and the £100K for the cabin. Thats the percentage he needs a shared interest in.

I would take the £25k so he has something to fall back on when he needs to rent a property, this isn't going to end well.

I can't remember but are SIL and BIL Married?

Who's name will the house be in? If they are not married and the house is solely in BIL name, he could sell at any time and SIL and FIL would have no say it and be homeless.

He really needs to get his head out of the sand and look at all the pitfalls.

@user1493494961

I would take the £25k so he has something to fall back on when he needs to rent a property, this isn't going to end well.

Was going to say this as well. Your DH and fil could put it in a joint account with maybe both to sign to withdraw money.

Just to echo what others have said: if he ends up needing care, the local authority absolutely will look at where his assets have gone. If they believe that he gave his money to SIL in order to avoid it going on care home costs (even if that’s not his intention, it’s a question of what the council thinks), then they can force SIL to sell her nice big home in order to return the money.

Every aspect of this is madness.