Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

You can see where this is going he's going to be the one providing free childcare to the new baby. His daughter and her husband will go off to work, the oldest children will be in school, he'll have no friends there and he will be isolated with his grandchild.

What is SIL's house like ? I wonder if he gave them 70k to buy the 4 bedroom house I linked to, could he then buy them out of their current house and live in that ? Both end up with houses ?

@MonochromeMinnie

I can't get over the fact he's only 65! Is he even retired yet? He's happy to live for the next 20 years in a cabin in the garden, looking out at the big house that he's largely paid for? And if it all goes wrong (and it will go wrong) it will be you housing him in his old age and bearing the financial cost.

There are some nice looking properties on Rightmove in Skegness around the 110/120k mark, rather than wasting that amount on a glorified shed that has no resale value. Perhaps he could be encouraged to view a couple of them?

100 percent all of this.

Why sink his capital into a ratty depreciating glorified garden shed instead of a proper house? It defies common sense.

At the end of the day he wants to spend his retirement by the coast and to be near to his daughter and existing grandchildren and any new ones that follow. He can’t be blamed for that I guess but the way it’s happening is just madness.

Yes that's basically it. He's choosing to do it in the most expensive, time-draining and risky (to his financial security) way.

My parents often have similar ideas about buying property etc but do actually do the sums and look into the consequences and sensibly decide against it when it's not right for them. If he hadn't sold his house already I'd be expecting your fil to quietly change his plans too but he's left himself in a tricky spot.

OP did you speak to FIL about the fact that it isn't possible to have a cabin for residential use (ie sleeping in) without having planning permission?

My grandmother did this with my aunt after grandfather died. It did cause problems and I think that gm came to regret it. Eventually gm developed dementia and almost all of the care fell to aunt. After gm died aunt was left with an awkward house with an annex to sell. Aunt had done too badly out of the deal as the house was all in her name.

Aunt then tried to persuade DM into a similar arrangement. DM fell for it for a while then realised that the proximity was suffocating and moved away before they were too enmeshed.

"I would also speak to SIL even if you don’t call her out - but you ask her what the plan is if ... (various scenarios)."

This, and I would do it via a Zoom call that you record.

Does FIL realize that he could become homeless and penniless if SIL's partner tosses him off the property? Or unable to sell the cabin and move on should he dislike coastal living, meet a new potential partner, etc? He is throwing away all options. It's insane.

But I stand by what I said, whatever the true reason behind all this is, it’s his choice to do as he wishes. We’ve expressed our worries and he’s dismissed them so not much we can do sadly.

Sadly I agree other than suggest he takes legal advice for both his and SIL sakes.

However I think your focus should now be on your families well being - ie not ending up with a long term guest. Either suggest he takes the 25K and rents or have very fixed deadlines and clearly reitterate them periodically remind him of the deadline and asking about moving our plans. That may not be easy - but if you don't I suspect you may end up with a longer term house guest and a very resentful damaged relationship.

This is all ridiculously dramatic.

It's reading as if he has to live in the garden to see his daughter's kids & will never see his son's kids again!

No wonder he seems to have taken such drastic steps!

The very least your fil should do is get some legal advice

As it seems there is little you can do to stop this, I would take a step back and start preparing your family.

I would not have FIL to live with you, not through sour grapes, or house space, but to protect your kids. They are used to having grandpa around alot now, constantly for maybe 12 months, then Nothing? Or 1 or 2 trips a year? That will be tough on you all, especially if tensions rise over the end move but it will feel like a bereavement for them. And if you do visit your 8yr old in particular will see grandpa who used to do loads with them, playing happy families with their cousins but not have the relationship with them that he used to. They will wonder what they did wrong. This will happen anyway but will be made worse by him living with you full time first.

You can't force him to change plan - but you can protect your kids!

OP it’s all well and you to say that FIL has made his decision but you and your DH are allowing yourselves to be party to it by not standing up for yourselves and saying you are not prepared to host FIL indefinitely.

You WILL end up with him living with you for an extended period of time. Have a look to see if their current house is on the market at the moment.

Do you think it is anywhere within the realms of possibility that they will sell, buy, get planning permission and build a cabin within the next 6 months - ie before the baby arrives? There is not a hope in hell, unless they are much further down the line than they’ve already told you in which case the deception runs much deeper.

You really need to start standing up for yourselves and not just passively play the roles other people have designated for you.

I agree with pps saying accept the £25k. If you don't, I guarantee your SIL will get her hands on it.

Keep it for FIL or for your kids but make sure that SIL doesn't get it.

I still think your DH is acting massively entitled, but YOU need to realise he is going to end up living with you for bloody months and months. I strongly suggest you put a time limit on it, or better yet he should look for a rental near SIL now.

"It will be great to have you here for 6 weeks, Dad, but I'm not keen on it going on longer than that. So if after a month you don't have a move-in date with SIL, you'll need to make alternative arrangements."

I'd be ringing sil. Id want to hear it form horses mouth, even if just to make her squirm

I agree with the posters suggesting you take the £25k because your FIL is very likely going to need a back up. The cabin idea is really strange, given the temperature in winter and the need for planning permission. Why didn't they look for a house with an annexe?

It's a very hard position to be in as this is not simply about unequal inheritances; it's about how your FIL has changed a secure position in terms of his accommodation to something that is much more risky. And that's assuming he will never need long term care.

I posted yesterday and said that it’s being driven by SIL and her partner, she’s now pregnant surprise surprise! He is being naive and could end up in a real mess and have no financial cushion. If I was you I’d be v upset that he’s losing his relationship with your kids and choosing to move away to help out the SIL’s financial situation ...sounds harsh but I’d not have him to stay ...it’s all been done behind the scenes and that’s not great.

I'd be worried about accepting the 25 K becuase it would seem as if the Op and her DH are endorsing the scheme and could well make them feel they had to house him while he waits and waits.

I can't help thinking it would be easier to avoid the additional social obligation the money could bring.

Another caution.

Suppose he moves in with your family and the move becomes permanent what if something happens to you. Is your DH going to be a carer for you and FIL If your family had to move to smaller accommodation would there be room for FIL or would he be able to pay for his own care or home.

You all need to consider all the “what ifs” before you go any further.

It’s a very good point about how it’s not fair on your kids to get used to having grandpa around all the time just for him to then virtually disappear from their lives. Not fair at all.

If he needs care in the future he will be investigated for deprivation of capital.

@Whatamesssss

I can't remember but are SIL and BIL Married?

Who's name will the house be in? If they are not married and the house is solely in BIL name, he could sell at any time and SIL and FIL would have no say it and be homeless.

He really needs to get his head out of the sand and look at all the pitfalls.

This x 100!

The SIL and partner aren’t married. It was the partner’s suggestion re this deal, which is very odd given he has no interest in that side of the family.

This whole thing has the chance to go even more horribly wrong for everyone involved.

I think you need to put some boundaries in place for you. You're right that ultimately it's his decision but him living with you is your decision.

So you could say that you're concerned about this plan because you don't think it'll be great (for any of you) if FIL lives with you for 12-18 months.

If you want to be a bit canny, say you're concerned about the pressure on SIL to:

• do well enough in promoted role to be confirmed/off probation there before she starts maternity
• househunt while pregnant (will he be able to do day trips to Skegness to help look at places - has he had a look on Rightmove to see what might be available)
• arrange mortgage (possibly while on mat leave pay)
• sort out solicitors etc for house purchase so everything's legal and fair and square (between her and BIL as they're not married, and FIL)
• move house (while pregnant/with tiny infant)
• start planning applications
• appeal planning application if declined
• project manage build of cabin (again, while pregnant or with tiny infant)

That all sounds really stressful! Wouldn't it be better for SIL if FIL rented a little place up there so he could be on hand to help (with househunting and baby) while all this got settled? It's going to be hard for him to help from your house when there's no space for him even to have a private phone call (etc. etc. ).

@diddl

This is all ridiculously dramatic.

It's reading as if he has to live in the garden to see his daughter's kids & will never see his son's kids again!

No wonder he seems to have taken such drastic steps!

That could potentially happen if SIL doesn't allow OH and her family in her house/garden.

The thing is there are so many options other than a cabin in a garden which result in the same end goal, which is to be closer to his daughter and other grandchildren. All of which would be quicker and safer for him financially. He considered it initially, getting his own little place, which he could do really quickly and be in it in a couple of months. Its all very odd. I can't help thinking there will be more yet to come to light about this whole situation.