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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Y7 disgusting comments

999 replies

ShinyGreenElephant · 23/03/2021 16:14

I'm 99% sure I'm not being unreasonable here but I'm SO angry and could do with some perspective/ advice.

A boy in my DD12s class has said to her today "shut your legs, your fanny stinks". This was in front of a group of kids. Shes on her period today as well so it made her feel even more paranoid and she was really upset and humiliated. A few of the boys laughed half-heartedly (all her boy mates have since said he was out of order but none of them said it at the time) and all the girls who were there went mad at him, DDs best friend slapped him across the face. DD called him an ugly little rat and walked away before he saw her crying but was then very upset and sobbing to the other girls. Shes been friends with this boy for years but hes recently turned on her a bit after hes asked her out twice and she said no. Nothing like this though.

DD told a teacher who told him off, but he wasn't sent home and hasnt apologised. The school didn't inform me about the incident. Far as I'm concerned this is nowhere NEAR good enough - I've called them and told them as much and been told they will investigate and deal with it further.

Can anyone advise on what my next steps should be? I'll be putting it all in writing tomorrow once they contact me with how they've dealt with it. What if its not good enough? Governors? What can I realistically expect - I will 100% need an apology and I want him suspended but not sure they would even tell me if he was.

Any advice welcome even if its to tell me I'm over reacting. I'm actually friends with his mum but won't contact her tonight at least as I'm so angry I know I won't be able to handle it well.

OP posts:
echt · 24/03/2021 20:07

How would you have handled it? Punished the boy for his stupid vile comment but allowed hers and the assault?

As a classroom teacher I would not be allowed to punish such offences, but would, as obliged, write a report on it. I am bound by law to report all instances of harm.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 24/03/2021 20:07

@RootyT00t sorry no don't see an issue other than the fact i used headmaster instead of heat teacher as i queried it as We don't use principle much and a lot would not know what it means , I didn't even know if they are of the same status in a school
Rest of my post stands and is no worse than anyone elses just that I don't think its ok to write 12 year olds off as being unable to learn
Others have said worse , yet its me your attacking

Loola81 · 24/03/2021 20:08

Yeah- I live in the U.K. and as I’ve explained Principal is interchangeable with Head Teacher. I was responding to someone having a go at me for using the word Principal. The semantic arguments are honestly surreal.

Onjnmoeiejducwoapy · 24/03/2021 20:08

@RootyT00t
How the actual hell is bullying and sexually harassing a girl, then humiliating her with misogynistic personal comments about her period, the same as a girl responding to that through tears calling him a rat?!?

You would have made a great judge in the 19th century, giving the poor 30 years hard punishment for robbing a carrot while giving others a small fine for rape.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:09

@echt

How would you have handled it? Punished the boy for his stupid vile comment but allowed hers and the assault?

As a classroom teacher I would not be allowed to punish such offences, but would, as obliged, write a report on it. I am bound by law to report all instances of harm.

You're being very technical about this echt, and that's great, but it's not actually answering the question.

What do you think the sanction should have been?

You have no way of knowing if the teacher did write a report!

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:09

[quote Onjnmoeiejducwoapy]@RootyT00t
How the actual hell is bullying and sexually harassing a girl, then humiliating her with misogynistic personal comments about her period, the same as a girl responding to that through tears calling him a rat?!?

You would have made a great judge in the 19th century, giving the poor 30 years hard punishment for robbing a carrot while giving others a small fine for rape.[/quote]
Okay il say it again for those at the back.

In. Terms. Of . Behaviour. Policy. It's. The. Same. Thing.

Morally, It. Isn't.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:10

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@RootyT00t sorry no don't see an issue other than the fact i used headmaster instead of heat teacher as i queried it as We don't use principle much and a lot would not know what it means , I didn't even know if they are of the same status in a school
Rest of my post stands and is no worse than anyone elses just that I don't think its ok to write 12 year olds off as being unable to learn
Others have said worse , yet its me your attacking [/quote]
You are so stressful, I've never seen anyone be able to pick an argument about nothing out of thin air so well!

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 24/03/2021 20:11

@RootyT00t you keep commenting I have asked you to please leave me alone several times now
I have explained what I said and the poster concerned has responded herself as I said pick on someone else

Loola81 · 24/03/2021 20:11

Everything said has a context and that has to be considered. Do you punish a child that says ‘fuck’ for stubbing their toe because it’s a swear word? Do you punish children verbally defending themselves? It depends on the situation. It’s never black and white. Context matters.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:12

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@RootyT00t you keep commenting I have asked you to please leave me alone several times now
I have explained what I said and the poster concerned has responded herself as I said pick on someone else [/quote]
No one is picking on you. You started fights with posters and now seem confused that people have responded.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:12

@Loola81

Everything said has a context and that has to be considered. Do you punish a child that says ‘fuck’ for stubbing their toe because it’s a swear word? Do you punish children verbally defending themselves? It depends on the situation. It’s never black and white. Context matters.
Not in a school, and not according to a policy.

Same in a workplace

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 24/03/2021 20:12

@Loola81 I wouldn't consider calling him a dirty rat punishable personally , the girl who slapped yes

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 24/03/2021 20:13

@RootyT00t no I haven't you have your the one keep digging at me

echt · 24/03/2021 20:14

You're being very technical about this echt, and that's great, but it's not actually answering the question

What do you think the sanction should have been?
I've not speculated on this, nor do I have to. It's all process that's the issue here.

You have no way of knowing if the teacher did write a report!

This serious incident did not come back to the OP, so a reasonable inference. Entirely unacceptable that it was for the OP to chase.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:14

Ugly rat.

Unecessary.

This is all semantics because OP only knows he wasn't suspended and hasn't apologised.

She knows nothing about his punishment.
She seems to think he should be suspended and no action for the girls, but that's completely unreasonable.

Loola81 · 24/03/2021 20:15

Behaviour and relationships policies require accounts from all parties so that context can be established. In this instance calling him a rat would be addressed but not punishable because it was said in defence of a sexist comment. The slapping would breach policy. No policy is black and white and if it is; it’s flawed. You have to take into account teenagers, hormones, history, witnesses, intent, feelings of victims.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:15

@echt

You're being very technical about this echt, and that's great, but it's not actually answering the question

What do you think the sanction should have been?
I've not speculated on this, nor do I have to. It's all process that's the issue here.

You have no way of knowing if the teacher did write a report!

This serious incident did not come back to the OP, so a reasonable inference. Entirely unacceptable that it was for the OP to chase.

Right so you don't actually have an opinion on it.

Not a reasonable inference.

Assuming this didn't occur in a classroom, the school is not responsible for reporting his vile words to her and hers to him.

The only one who should have been told is the mother of the boy who was assaulted.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:15

@Loola81

Behaviour and relationships policies require accounts from all parties so that context can be established. In this instance calling him a rat would be addressed but not punishable because it was said in defence of a sexist comment. The slapping would breach policy. No policy is black and white and if it is; it’s flawed. You have to take into account teenagers, hormones, history, witnesses, intent, feelings of victims.
Should, would , could, but a policy is a policy. Unfortunately.
RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:16

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@RootyT00t no I haven't you have your the one keep digging at me [/quote]
🙄

Diverseopinions · 24/03/2021 20:16

So this boy used to be OH's daughter's friend. So, presumably, he has a decent side, and doesn't target abuse at people, most of the time.

The school should organise some lessons, maybe boys and girls separately, to talk about the issues and the need to be sensitive. All the kids need more help with puberty and phse. I can't imagine what the boys' sessions would entail, but I hope they would probe male attitudes to female bodies. The results might be encouraging. It might be that stupid random insults don't denote attitudes which equal the belief that girls have smelly orifices which are somehow not as nice as male organs. We don't know what the young boy had in his mind when he spoke. We are just hearing one version.

The girls' phse session ought to include, imo, discussion of personal care and hygiene, requests for feedback to make sure there is enough time to change using proper facilities and products in school. At the same time, if I was the mother of a girl, I'd suggest wearing little shorts over pants to make sure sanitary wear isn't slipping out of place. I don't think very short skirts are sensible for the reason that they might expose underwear accidentally and decrease confidence that everything is well-covered and not about to show accidental and unavoidable staining. If a girl is well-prepared, she can be confident and know there is no basis to such insults as the one we're discussing. She is clean and fresh to satisfy her own optimum standards and she can ignore pathetic, supposedly amusing comments. Then she can get on with her life. That's all any of us can do, as teenagers or grown adults; as menstruating women, pregnant or older women who have become incontinent. Sort ourselves out, be confident, and ignore insults. This is better than focusing on closing down juvenile insults, because rude and foolish people will always exist.

Is the boy's comment worse than "Your trousers smell of piss"/ "Your jacket smells like shit"/ "You've got a wank stain on your shirt"? Why is his 'fanny' comment sexual abuse? He is twelve. He might not even connect his comment with menstruation or think that periods equal a different smell. It might be a stupid comment his older brother makes sometimes, that he copied for something to say. Or maybe a crude version of " Shut your mouth or a fly will go in", for when someone has their legs a bit apart.

Also, I don't get asking people out at age twelve. If that is going to lead to kissing or experimenting, then it's surely too young. Also, imagine the risk of rude comments if a girl actually kissed and cuddled with with one of these oafish boys. Isn't it best to avoid boyfriend/girlfriend at that age?
I also don't get chatting about the insult and finding out a lot of the boys thought the comment had been out of order. Isn't telling an adult the best course, but then staying silent and treating it just as a contemptible random , childish comment, not a barb which had hit it's mark.

I'd like to think schools can do more, but I don't think making a social drama of any kind of insult is a wise idea. It just leads to side-taking and a them and us attitude - and aggression and score-settling.

Grenlei · 24/03/2021 20:19

And again so what should OPs DD have done in the face of a nasty misogynistic comment targeted at her and intended to humiliate her?

Ignored it?
Told a teacher? who would ignore it
Simpered and laughed?

If calling him a rat, an idiot or any other possibly insulting response would have been 'unacceptable'.

I'm interested in how the high and mighty posters think a 12 year old should have responded.

EvaGalli · 24/03/2021 20:20

If it were me, I too would be furious but I would want it handled the correct way and that’s hard when you’re angry. The comment is deeply offensive. It’s not trivial and it can’t be dismissed. This behaviour if not handled can encourage a culture of it. That’s not good for anyone. I would look at the school rules on its website. How was it supposed to deal with it first? Theyre obliged to uphold certain values and set an example. Check their policy on bullying. Then write a dated letter or email fully outlining the incident, request a meeting with the Head. Say exactly how the rules have been broken inserting a quote of the rule from their site. Say you await a reply by a given date. A week is reasonable. Address it directly to the headmistress. Specify the schools handling in detail and don’t be afraid to tread on toes. Keep language firm, reasonable and to the point. Spell out the impact on your daughters mental health and education. This is not a trivial thing. Puberty is hard for girls. If you don’t get a rely by that date keep going. Ask to speak to the Head. Send a prompt reminder. Set another date for two weeks. Become a headache. If the school are dragging the heels on this I would push.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:21

@Grenlei

And again so what should OPs DD have done in the face of a nasty misogynistic comment targeted at her and intended to humiliate her?

Ignored it?
Told a teacher? who would ignore it
Simpered and laughed?

If calling him a rat, an idiot or any other possibly insulting response would have been 'unacceptable'.

I'm interested in how the high and mighty posters think a 12 year old should have responded.

No one is high and mighty we live in the real world.

Told a teacher. Il ignore your childish underscore as unless you know every teacher in the world you can't know that.

Simpered and laughed implies I'm sexist which I don't appreciate it.

Dd should have reported it. Teacher should have sanctioned him. Pal should have stayed out of it.

I know in MN there's an insult and kids can do as they like, assault people, and OP still wants the governor's in because she hasn't been told what happened to another child, but in reality, schools don't operate like this.

We have procedures and we are not there at your beckoning based on your politics.

RootyT00t · 24/03/2021 20:22

@EvaGalli

If it were me, I too would be furious but I would want it handled the correct way and that’s hard when you’re angry. The comment is deeply offensive. It’s not trivial and it can’t be dismissed. This behaviour if not handled can encourage a culture of it. That’s not good for anyone. I would look at the school rules on its website. How was it supposed to deal with it first? Theyre obliged to uphold certain values and set an example. Check their policy on bullying. Then write a dated letter or email fully outlining the incident, request a meeting with the Head. Say exactly how the rules have been broken inserting a quote of the rule from their site. Say you await a reply by a given date. A week is reasonable. Address it directly to the headmistress. Specify the schools handling in detail and don’t be afraid to tread on toes. Keep language firm, reasonable and to the point. Spell out the impact on your daughters mental health and education. This is not a trivial thing. Puberty is hard for girls. If you don’t get a rely by that date keep going. Ask to speak to the Head. Send a prompt reminder. Set another date for two weeks. Become a headache. If the school are dragging the heels on this I would push.
What about the boy who was called ugly assaulted? How's his mental health? Or did he deserve it?
catpoooffender · 24/03/2021 20:23

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@catpoooffender so sexism isn't ok but violence is ?and we supposedly want equality . [/quote]
I think you've got the wrong poster...