Nan won't have vaccine

[PurpleYo]

But expects everyone to still be happy to meet with her once restrictions lift.

What would you do?

She says if it's her time it's her time, she's not bothered. Which is her choice of course but I obviously wouldn't feel that way about potentially having killed my Nan if I were the one to pass anything on!

She is 80. I am in my late 20s with young children in primary so still going to be a bit of a risk factor for a while.

@lorca I couldn't give a damn if you do or don't get vaccinated as long as you don't lie to people about it.

The people on here boasting about how they are going to lie to their friends and families and attempt to lie for travel etc. are proud of indefensible and shameful behaviour.

@lljkk you already said on this thread that you would have had no problem with many more people dying if it had meant no lockdown, so I don't think you need to put selfish in inverted commas.

[quote DropDTuning]@lorca I couldn't give a damn if you do or don't get vaccinated as long as you don't lie to people about it.

The people on here boasting about how they are going to lie to their friends and families and attempt to lie for travel etc. are proud of indefensible and shameful behaviour.[/quote]
I am not boasting about lying. One person is attempting to emotionally blackmail me and another is being abusive.. all because I wont do something they want me too. I will lie because I want to see my dad and I wish to stay friends with the other person.

I've not seen anywhere anything about why the OP's Nan is refusing the vaccine. If she has made an informed decision then fair enough. Vaccines come with risks, albeit small, she may have decided she'd rather risk covid than something going wrong with the vaccine. It's her choice.
OP - it's also your choice how you handle it.
I'm not sure my 94yrs old grandmother will get the vaccine. But then in France it seems more common and more respected for people to make their own decision on this matter. Its not going to stop me visiting her.
What about if she dies of a cold that you unknowingly passed on? Ultimately elderly people can die of a variety of reasons which may seem to have a causal link to you but really the real reason they die isn't the specific illness but their age and therefore vulnerability.

@WindmillsOfMyMind6 thank you for your post. I hope people actually read it and not attack me instead. I have been tagged a load of times but MN have deleted the posts. I can only assume it was people attacking me.

Personally I’ll be gladly and unashamedly lying that I’ve had the vaccine. I imagine quite a lot of people will be doing the same to avoid becoming a social pariah grin

This is just so selfish. I’m speaking as someone who has ended up with Long Covid, which is the main risk faced by younger people who haven’t yet been vaccinated.

Your choice not to have the vaccine. Other people have a right to being able to make informed choices about the risks they take.

I’ve had the first dose of the vaccine, so I’m not talking about myself now.

@XenoBitch
I am not boasting about lying.

No, you just said you were going to lie about it. It was another poster who praised you for it and was boasting about how they were going to do the same.

One person is attempting to emotionally blackmail me and another is being abusive.. all because I wont do something they want me too. I will lie because I want to see my dad and I wish to stay friends with the other person.

You don't get to make that decision for them. It's your decision whether or not to have the vaccine. It's their decision whether or not to see you. It is absolutely unequivocally not AT ALL OK for you to lie about it.

(The question of why you're so desperate to stay friends with someone who is abusive/emotionally blackmailing you is a different issue and nothing to do with this thread.)

You do not have the right to endanger other people by lying to them. Stop trying to justify it. It is not justifiable. You get to make your choice. You don't get to make theirs for them. It doesn't matter if you're boasting about it or just stating it. It's not OK.

[quote DropDTuning]@XenoBitch
I am not boasting about lying.

No, you just said you were going to lie about it. It was another poster who praised you for it and was boasting about how they were going to do the same.

One person is attempting to emotionally blackmail me and another is being abusive.. all because I wont do something they want me too. I will lie because I want to see my dad and I wish to stay friends with the other person.

You don't get to make that decision for them. It's your decision whether or not to have the vaccine. It's their decision whether or not to see you. It is absolutely unequivocally not AT ALL OK for you to lie about it.

(The question of why you're so desperate to stay friends with someone who is abusive/emotionally blackmailing you is a different issue and nothing to do with this thread.)

You do not have the right to endanger other people by lying to them. Stop trying to justify it. It is not justifiable. You get to make your choice. You don't get to make theirs for them. It doesn't matter if you're boasting about it or just stating it. It's not OK.[/quote]
It is my dad who is blackmailing me. I see him anyway as he is in my support bubble... so this has nothing to do with putting him at risk and all to do with him trying to get his way. He is a manipulative person and is trying it on. I am not endangering him by lying as I see him anyway.
I would not lie to anyone else, especially if me not being vaccinated put their health at risk. I just would not see them if that was the path they wanted to go down.

How come there is no vitriol aimed at people who are attempting to emotionally blackmail people in such a way, or are giving others abuse?

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if this analogy has already been used.

A person wants to die by suicide and jumps in front of a train. The train driver didn't mean to kill the person. Didn't want to kill the person. But lives with knowing they did.

I am in the OP's camp. If nan wants to take the risk of lying gasping for breath, surrounded by strangers, unable to be comforted during her last breaths then that's her choice. I would choose not to be the one who gives it to her.

That's fine if she doesn't mind. I don't need to RTFT to know that everyone else will want her lined up and shot for being selfish in case some nurse catches it.

Selfish old boot! If she gets covid and ends up very ill I assume she’ll be refusing hospital treatment and a valuable NHS bed as it’s her time? I’d be inclined to refuse to see her until she’s had it personally.

@XenoBitch

YABU. Her body, her choice. I wont be having the vaccine (for MH reasons) and I am prepared to lie to friends who get funny about seeing me without it. Or I will cut them out my life anyway for getting shitty about my own personal medical decisions.

For ‘MH reasons’ What the fuck does that even mean? Is having mental health problems a free pass to be a colossal bellend? I’m surprised you have any friends to lie to to be honest.

Oooohbehave - Can you not comprehend that others may have different views and difficulties to you? Do you make a habit to ask people intrusive questions about their health? How blinkered you sound!
If someone refuses the vaccine for health reasons (and indeed any other informed reason of their own!)others need to respect it. It is a personal decision at the end of the day. 'Selfish' is a ridiculous accusation in the western world when everything is about the individual. We are all indeed selfish. We will look out for ourselves and those we hold dear first and foremost.

@Oooohbehave

Is there any need to be so nasty? Did you it make you feel good doing that?

Would you be saying the same to someone who can not have the vaccine due to allergies, or because they are trying to conceive or are pregnant/breastfeeding? Or maybe they are terrified about side effects. Would you instead try to reassure them? Or would you talk to them as you have done to me?

To add, I would lie to people who are abusing me for my decision... as a way to keep the peace. If someone is genuinely scared of me being unvaccinated then I will respect that and keep my distance.

Stop lying, @XenoBitch . Stop trying to justify lying.

I would lie to people who are abusing me for my decision... as a way to keep the peace. If someone is genuinely scared of me being unvaccinated then I will respect that and keep my distance.

It's not for you to judge someone else's thoughts or emotions. Just STOP LYING and stop justifying it.

You think it's OK to not get the vaccine. Fine. Your choice. You do not get to make other people's choices for them .

Stop lying.

It's not OK.

Just stop trying to pretend it's defensible. It's not. Stop lying.

You can't even keep your story straight on here:

I would not lie to anyone else, especially if me not being vaccinated put their health at risk. I just would not see them if that was the path they wanted to go down

To add, I would lie to people who are abusing me for my decision... as a way to keep the peace.

I wont be having the vaccine (for MH reasons) and I am prepared to lie to friends who get funny about seeing me without it.

Three posts on this thread by you. Three completely contradictory statements. I suggest you start trying to be honest: here, in real life, generally.

Own your decisions, own your choices. Stop thinking you can manipulate and control other people by lying to them.

What you describe is not 'friendship'. Friends don't treat each other like that. You don't get to determine what reality is.

Lying like this is indefensible. Stop trying to defend it. It doesn't work.

@DropDTuning

Stop lying, *@XenoBitch* . Stop trying to justify lying.

I would lie to people who are abusing me for my decision... as a way to keep the peace. If someone is genuinely scared of me being unvaccinated then I will respect that and keep my distance.

It's not for you to judge someone else's thoughts or emotions. Just STOP LYING and stop justifying it.

You think it's OK to not get the vaccine. Fine. Your choice. You do not get to make other people's choices for them .

Stop lying.

It's not OK.

Just stop trying to pretend it's defensible. It's not. Stop lying.

I take it you have never lied about a damn thing in your life then? Especially to avoid conflict? Why is it the most terrible thing for me to lie to maintain a relationship, but not for someone to emotionally blackmail me?

@oblada

Oooohbehave - Can you not comprehend that others may have different views and difficulties to you? Do you make a habit to ask people intrusive questions about their health? How blinkered you sound! If someone refuses the vaccine for health reasons (and indeed any other informed reason of their own!)others need to respect it. It is a personal decision at the end of the day. 'Selfish' is a ridiculous accusation in the western world when everything is about the individual. We are all indeed selfish. We will look out for ourselves and those we hold dear first and foremost.

I have zero respect for antivaxxers. Yes I do judge those who refuse a vaccine unless there is a genuine medical reason and if that makes me blinkered then so be it. What’s even worse is lying about it and taking away others ability to make an informed choice, in what world is that not selfish?

I should not feel the need to lie at all. People should not b giving me abuse, or threatening to withdrawal contact because I wont do the same as them.

I mean she’s 83. Isn’t the average life span 81 here? No matter what illness she may or may not catch, the ultimate cause of death at 83 would simply be old age. I would spend as much time as possible with her while you can, how bad would you feel if she died of something non-covid related & you had refused to see her? Both of my grandmothers died last year- neither from covid. Would give anything to have had that opportunity to see them.

@DropDTuning

You can't even keep your story straight on here:

I would not lie to anyone else, especially if me not being vaccinated put their health at risk. I just would not see them if that was the path they wanted to go down

To add, I would lie to people who are abusing me for my decision... as a way to keep the peace.

I wont be having the vaccine (for MH reasons) and I am prepared to lie to friends who get funny about seeing me without it.

Three posts on this thread by you. Three completely contradictory statements. I suggest you start trying to be honest: here, in real life, generally.

Own your decisions, own your choices. Stop thinking you can manipulate and control other people by lying to them.

What you describe is not 'friendship'. Friends don't treat each other like that. You don't get to determine what reality is.

Lying like this is indefensible. Stop trying to defend it. It doesn't work.

YOu are right that friendships should not be like that, and I will be telling the one who is giving me abuse to fuck off. He knows why I wont be getting the vaccine, so his reaction is very out of proportion.

Not contracditory... and you posted them out of order. By "getting funny" - that is the person giving me abuse.

I hate to feel the need to lie. So please advise how I could go about things without having to do so. I do want to continue to see my dad. He is trying to manipulate and control me. I just do not understand how you can not see that.

It is everyone's civil duty to have the vaccination when/if they are offered it. This vaccination is safe. Vaccination is safe. If people in the past had refused vaccination we would still have smallpox, diphtheria and polio killing thousands of people every year! OP tell your hand parent to give their head a wobble and get the jab!

[quote XenoBitch]@Oooohbehave

Is there any need to be so nasty? Did you it make you feel good doing that?

Would you be saying the same to someone who can not have the vaccine due to allergies, or because they are trying to conceive or are pregnant/breastfeeding? Or maybe they are terrified about side effects. Would you instead try to reassure them? Or would you talk to them as you have done to me?[/quote]
My idea of nasty is lying to people about having a vaccine and taking away their ability to make a decision whether to socialise with you. Do you not think what you said might get people’s backs up?

*grand not hand!