Page 8 | Nan won't have vaccine

lljkk · 23/03/2021 16:02

So the lesson is... don't tell anyone if you decide not to get vaccine. In fact, lie and say you did get it.

TitusPullo · 23/03/2021 16:06

@lljkk - you forgot the part where you should also bribe government officials to update your medical records so it says you’ve had it and you can still travel.

Northernlass99 · 23/03/2021 16:07

People say 'when its my time, its my time' thinking that they will just die. My FIL was the same with drinking and smoking excessively. Unfortunately often what actually happens is a long, drawn out illness, or life changing disability. In my FIL's case a stroke and a heart attack, followed by a need for personal care. And an enormous amount of stress to his family. Yes it is her medical decision but will have an impact on you. Can you talk to her about the impact her being ill would have on you?

ddl1 · 23/03/2021 16:16

So lying about having a vaccine to avoid abuse and emotional blackmail is somehow worse than you actually hoping someone loses a relative soon

Though neither is nice, yes, the lying IS worse. Because just hoping that someone will lose a relative won't actually cause their relatives to die or get sick, but lying and giving others a false sense of security about their risk of exposure from you COULD cause someone to die or get sick.

jellybellybanana · 23/03/2021 16:18

Funny how no one gets up in arms about any other vaccine

Funny how measles hasn't been a global fucking pandemic for over a year.
So many idiots

TitusPullo · 23/03/2021 16:23

People do get up in arms about other vaccines, there is a whole anti-vaccine movement.

XenoBitch · 23/03/2021 16:24

@ddl1

So lying about having a vaccine to avoid abuse and emotional blackmail is somehow worse than you actually hoping someone loses a relative soon

Though neither is nice, yes, the lying IS worse. Because just hoping that someone will lose a relative won't actually cause their relatives to die or get sick, but lying and giving others a false sense of security about their risk of exposure from you COULD cause someone to die or get sick.

I may lie to my dad because he is refusing to see me if I am not vaccinated. Nothing to do with getting sick or safety... he is in my support bubble so I am have been seeing him anyway. He is using it as a way to emotionally blackmail me and coerce me. And I may lie to a friend who has been giving me abuse despite knowing my reasons, so he shuts up about it. Probably best if I cut him out because I do not need that level of vitriol in my life. Bit difficult with my dad.

Being unvaccinated wont mean I am a deadly biohazard, and it is daft that people who wont be having the vaccine are considered as such... yet if they can't have it for whatever reason, they are seen as safe.

jellybellybanana · 23/03/2021 16:27

Being unvaccinated wont mean I am a deadly biohazard, and it is daft that people who wont be having the vaccine are considered as such... yet if they can't have it for whatever reason, they are seen as safe

Don't be so daft. They aren't considered safe is they can't have it, but we know they can't have it. We are careful around them. We get vaccinated to protect them.
You, on the other hand, are a risk to them, because not only will you not be vaccinated, you will actively lie to people so they don't know you are a risk to them. You are the worst.

chaosrabbitland · 23/03/2021 16:30

@GrumpyHoonMain

One of my relatives was like this, so I used DS as a bribe to make her get it done. Basically said if she got the vaccine then provided we did too we’ll bring DS to see her (she hasn’t seen him since he was born as he’s a lockdown baby).

its more like you blackmailed her you mean , i am assuming if shed still said no you would have refused to bring her grandchild to see her ?

XenoBitch · 23/03/2021 16:33

@jellybellybanana

Being unvaccinated wont mean I am a deadly biohazard, and it is daft that people who wont be having the vaccine are considered as such... yet if they can't have it for whatever reason, they are seen as safe

Don't be so daft. They aren't considered safe is they can't have it, but we know they can't have it. We are careful around them. We get vaccinated to protect them.
You, on the other hand, are a risk to them, because not only will you not be vaccinated, you will actively lie to people so they don't know you are a risk to them. You are the worst.

How will you know who can and can't have it? How will you know who has had it or not? Do you routinely ask your friends what medical procedures they have had?

Hadjab · 23/03/2021 17:03

@PurpleYo

We've spent over a year being told how vulnerable people like my Nan are, how they need to shield, not see them to protect them etc etc... so yes it scares me that soon I'm supposed to just forget all that and get on with it like normal, with her still unvaccinated and at risk.

Maybe it's an illogical fear, as others have pointed out there are other things going round too every year.

Out of 7.6 billion people on the planet, there have been 124 million cases - 2.7 million have died, 70m have recovered. The chances of you killing your granny are slim.

Sadsiblingatsea · 23/03/2021 17:14

It’s entirely up to her.
It’s unkind to guilt trip her into having a medical procedure she is uncomfortable about having.

Brownteddybear · 23/03/2021 18:34

@Movinghouseatlast

Does she actually understand the strain on the NHS her getting ill would cause? How much an ITU bed costs per day? How she could inadvertently pass the vaccine to others who may also clog up the iTU?

Can you try explaining that to her? In our society we don't just leave people to die so there is a consequence to her choice.

Do you say the same to everyone who has become obese, smokes or takes drugs?

Movinghouseatlast · 23/03/2021 18:59

The numbers for Covid patients is rather higher in ITU. And the risk of passing it on.

A drug addiction could say they want to die rather than give up, but they don't run the risk of passing on the addiction to others who in turn pass it on to others.

It is totally different.

Serin · 23/03/2021 19:04

I think if they refuse the vaccine they can hardly expect the NHS to treat them if they catch it.

XenoBitch · 23/03/2021 23:10

@Serin

I think if they refuse the vaccine they can hardly expect the NHS to treat them if they catch it.

That is your opinion and thankfully not the reality.

user127819 · 23/03/2021 23:43

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

Yes, of course, if the alternative is not seeing her at all! What are you actually saying? Look Nan- I refuse to ever see you again in case I pass a virus too you that kills you? That's ridiculous! If she has said she's willing to take the risk, then you have to accept that.

Yes, I agree. The hysteria over a small number of people exercising their rights to control their own bodies is a bit ridiculous.

It's reasonable if OP prefers to avoid her until she herself if vaccinated (although by that logic she also needs to avoid everyone her own age), but after that, she's vaccinated, she has nothing to worry about.

Hardcoresoftie · 24/03/2021 00:19

Selfish has become the new racist it seems. A term to throw around when you have no ability to reason, just want things your way and its convenient to just dismiss others.

WilsonMilson · 24/03/2021 00:30

It’s her own choice. I don’t think people should impose their views or judgements on other people’s personal medical choices and rights.

As long as the person has mental capacity to choose, it’s their responsibility and no one else’s business.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 24/03/2021 00:31

My nan said this at the beginning for no valid reason other than well I don't go out much ( because we are in lockdown)
My uncle who does a lot of care said he would have to continue to sd for a long time then as lives with people in high risk jobs and 2 of my cousins work as teacher and prison officer had said they wouldn't be able to visit until cases were totally down as well as risk was too high and would feel awful
Anyway she had the jab , no one forced her but did point out it would take longer to get back to normality

WindmillsOfMyMind6 · 24/03/2021 00:47

@PurpleYo

But expects everyone to still be happy to meet with her once restrictions lift.

What would you do?

She says if it's her time it's her time, she's not bothered. Which is her choice of course but I obviously wouldn't feel that way about potentially having killed my Nan if I were the one to pass anything on!

She is 80. I am in my late 20s with young children in primary so still going to be a bit of a risk factor for a while.

I can understand your fears. I don't know if this makes you feel any better but the risk of transmission is mostly through droplets coughed into the air. If you sit 2 metres away from your man when you visit I think your transmission rate is pretty low. Bring hand sanitiser. If a mask would ease your mind, try that, maybe?

Your nan may be being unreasonable or she may not be, depending on why she doesn't want the vaccine. is she worried about blood clots? That is a higher risk in the elderly.

Regarding @XenoBitch 's post am going to go against the grain here.

I have had my jab (am CV) but due to my own diagnosed and long standing mental health issues and trauma issues from a weirdly abusive and religious upbringing, I was having fears and obsessions about the jab meaning my DNA would be altered and I would burn in hellfire forever (as well as EUPD/BPD and complex PTSD, I have had OCD since age 7 and the type I currently struggle with is a kind called Scrupulosity. So I am very prone to bizarre influences and obsessions regarding this kind of thing). Now I am having therapy currently and no longer living with my toxic parents so I have had a good support network to help me battle my fears and I was able to go to my GP and get it done. It wasn't easy, I felt a bit sick and even the night before wanted to call it off.

I got through it but even now my mind torments me about it even though I have been reading scientific reports about the Oxford Jab saying it doesn't alter. Dna etc...because my mind isn't well.

So if someone feels they can't have the jab because of mental health I completely accept that..

I don't agree with lying about it. I wouldn't do that. But yes i would tell people that it isn't their business or change the subject.

But what if I were in @XenoBitch's situation and felt in was unable to set a firm boundary?.I have been in that situation where I have been coerced by my father about things and unable.to say no. sometimes I have lied (and about far worse things) to get him off my back and stop him turning nasty.

If someone refused the vaccine for a physical health reason e.g. Breastfeeding, pregnancy etc would we be attacking them?.why is mental health so different ?

I actually think it's a form of ableism to be so sceptical of someone saying they have mental health issues on an internet forum. What about accepting others lived experience?

I thought mumsnet was supposed to be so woke

Alsohuman · 24/03/2021 07:19

@Hardcoresoftie

Selfish has become the new racist it seems. A term to throw around when you have no ability to reason, just want things your way and its convenient to just dismiss others.

So true. And the irony of selfish being a cardinal sin when we live in such a self centred society.

lorca · 24/03/2021 07:29

Selfish? Everyone is selfish. In fact, the term is losing it's meaning, i'ts been used so much over the past year, for entirely legal activities, to keep us all in a state of terror.

I'm one who will not have this years 1st jab - I am waiting and watching. Am I SELFISH for not getting vaccinated? (this time)

Or am I actually SELF-LESS, due to standing aside to let other people behind me in the queue to come forward for theirs?

It used to be good manners to let others come forward, before you.

It's my choice.

Roselilly36 · 24/03/2021 07:56

Totally her choice.

lljkk · 24/03/2021 08:56

I am joking that I'm standing aside so the panic frantics can all get their jab first. I know I'm stuck having to get it (vaccine passports), but no rush. "We're not safe until we're all safe" - right? So why does it matter if I delay my jab(s)?

I've spent a year being called idiot & selfish for not agreeing with Lockdown & the harsh control measures. All the community volunteering & actual covid-control work I do (some for free!!) doesn't offset my "selfish" attitudes. Situation feels like mind control, basically, we now need to be "true believers" on top of every other effort we must make (& I do make) to avoid people & follow the rules. Pah.