Nan won't have vaccine

[PurpleYo]

But expects everyone to still be happy to meet with her once restrictions lift.

What would you do?

She says if it's her time it's her time, she's not bothered. Which is her choice of course but I obviously wouldn't feel that way about potentially having killed my Nan if I were the one to pass anything on!

She is 80. I am in my late 20s with young children in primary so still going to be a bit of a risk factor for a while.

@NutellaEllaElla

Is this like suicide by vaccine avoidance?

No. Because death rates are low, even in the most vulnerable groups.

If she's happy to die, why doesn't she want to risk having the vaccination?

Fair point lilmidge01 but I think refusing to see her would be going way too far, as would trying to force or bribe her into getting the vaccine as another poster unthread did

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

I can't believe some of these responses. Branding an 80 yr old 'utterly selfish'. Accusing HER of putting a 20 year yr old at risk? 20 yr olds aren't AT risk! Fuck's sake.

Also in response to the '20 year olds aren't at risk', I think we all know that its impossible to know 100% how you willre act, how badly you'll suffer if you have long covid so that point is ridiculous.

However, to look at this a different way.... if we accept that premise that 20 year olds are at less risk.... 20 year olds have been essentially pausing their lives along with everyone else for a year, often suffering huge financial and social issues as result, in order to protect 80 year olds (I know this is simplistic, but I'm gong with the simplistic view you've presented). So now that there is some glimmer of a return to normality on the horizon, this 80 year old is refusing to help said 20 year olds to return to it more quickly as she;s already had her life and doesn't care if it's 'her time'....yeah, I'd say that's selfish.

Ok Lilmidge01 you present a fair and balanced argument- I capitulate

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

Fair point lilmidge01 but I think refusing to see her would be going way too far, as would trying to force or bribe her into getting the vaccine as another poster unthread did

I agree, definitely noone should force anyone to get it or try to bribe them as per the other poster. However, I do think she is being very selfish and is trying to use her age as a free pass to justify her actions. I would be making that clear to my nan that I disapprove of her stance and am disappointed that she would take such a selfish course of action (maybe she just hasn't thought it through in that way)

I know of two previously very fit and well students, 20 and 21, who have both developed long covid and are still struggling and unwell over ten months on. Being in your twenties means your risk of death is very low, but chronic illness can still be an issue.

Maybe discuss the points about transmission and see if she shifts.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

Ok Lilmidge01 you present a fair and balanced argument- I capitulate

Ah sorry, wasn't trying to badger you into submission.

But I do find these discussions really interesting as to 'what is the right thing'?

(Basically I'm trying to put off a bit of work and am enjoying some hypothetical navel gazing on the dilemma of the OP)

It’s her choice and if you live her, then you’d see her, vaccine or no vaccine.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

Yes, of course, if the alternative is not seeing her at all! What are you actually saying? Look Nan- I refuse to ever see you again in case I pass a virus too you that kills you? That's ridiculous! If she has said she's willing to take the risk, then you have to accept that.

This.

@LilMidge01 makes a very good point.

What is her reason for not getting the vaccine? If she's prepared to die if it's her time, how much worse could any side effect be?

Does she actually understand the strain on the NHS her getting ill would cause? How much an ITU bed costs per day? How she could inadvertently pass the vaccine to others who may also clog up the iTU?

Can you try explaining that to her? In our society we don't just leave people to die so there is a consequence to her choice.

Not at all Lilmidge you presented such a polite and thoughtful-and clearly correct-response to my irritated ventings that I am more than happy to admit you're right!

@PurpleYo I get it, we were exactly the same with my DGM - she's 83 and wasn't sure whether she was going to have the vaccine. I was quite clear with her: she's an adult, it's her choice, and obviously if I killed her by giving her COVID I'd be devastated. My DD is at nursery and poses a likely point of infection. But I also asked her how she'd feel if she unwittingly passed it on to one of her children (both of whom are in risk categories) or to her grandchildren/great great grandchildren. That's what swung it in the end.

@SirVixofVixHall

I know of two previously very fit and well students, 20 and 21, who have both developed long covid and are still struggling and unwell over ten months on. Being in your twenties means your risk of death is very low, but chronic illness can still be an issue.

This is very true, I wasn't taking long COVID into account

@LilMidge01 @InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream An exchange of views where no blood was spilled? You've saved the internet today for me, thank you both!

My Dad is the same and on chemo totally refuses to have it full on conspiracy enthusiast. I just think it is their choice and whilst it would be hard if they passed away from it, you could never be sure it was you. Unless you had symptoms in which case you would stay away.

[quote UnsolicitedDickPic]**@LilMidge01* @InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream* An exchange of views where no blood was spilled? You've saved the internet today for me, thank you both! [/quote]
You're welcome

YABU.
Her body, her choice.
I wont be having the vaccine (for MH reasons) and I am prepared to lie to friends who get funny about seeing me without it. Or I will cut them out my life anyway for getting shitty about my own personal medical decisions.

@Movinghouseatlast - I completely agree.

Assuming she's got no medical reasons for refusal, I would refuse to see her (except outside at a social distance). It is her choice to refuse, but your choice how you respond.

If she gets it, she will not only risk herself (which is her choice) but also risk passing it on to her friends, and put pressure on our failing health service which could have been avoided. The hospital will spend resources treating her, and therefore be unable to treat another person as well as they otherwise could. Is she happy to effectively deny someone else treatment?

@XenoBitch - don’t lie that you’ve had it, that’s beyond the pale. Don’t have it, your choice, but accept the consequences. You’ve made your choice with all the information available, let your friends do the same.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

I can't believe some of these responses. Branding an 80 yr old 'utterly selfish'. Accusing HER of putting a 20 year yr old at risk? 20 yr olds aren't AT risk! Fuck's sake.

To clarify, I am not bothered about myself here. My concern was us passing it to her not the other way around.

It's entirely her choice of course. Of course you still meet her when restrictions are lifted. Why wouldn't you

Isn't it obvious? Nan won't get vaccinated, OP or worse, one of her children, gets covid and passes in to Nan, Nan dies and OP/kid has to live with the fact that they inadvertently killed Nan. OR Nan gets Covid and gives it to others as they aren't priority for vaccine, like her, they get very ill.

Fuck that! No. Nan can choose as she likes, but she can't choose what every one else does. No vaccine, no visit.