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AIBU?

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Nicola Sturgeon has done a number on the English left.

509 replies

derxa · 23/03/2021 07:18

A white wash report. Misuse of public money. Shower of incompetents in SNP government. Rotten education. Using covid as a political tool.
I could weep for my country.
Yet people like James O'Brien continue to arse lick Nicola

OP posts:
Fandangoes · 24/03/2021 18:25

forgive my ignorance but how have SNP been allowed to get away with not publishing tax revenue figures for over 10 years?? That seems crazy!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/03/2021 18:29

England the abusive spouse, gaslighting and financial abuse so LTB Scotland

MinnieMous3 · 24/03/2021 18:35

@Fandangoes

forgive my ignorance but how have SNP been allowed to get away with not publishing tax revenue figures for over 10 years?? That seems crazy!
They’ve published tax revenue, but they no longer release figures on the total output of Scotland.
MinnieMous3 · 24/03/2021 18:37

Here we go. A good, comprehensive article from Full Fact, who are the UK’s leading independent fact checking organisation. This is more reliable than any newspaper article etc with inherent bias.

fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/

PianoPants · 24/03/2021 18:40

If you live in Scotland and aren't happy then go and live somewhere where you are happy... Oh wait.

YNK · 24/03/2021 20:56

This reminds me of when my ex issued his last ultimatum.

When called on it he started pulling/pushing me about shouting
"You won't survive without me! You are nothing but a wastrel"

I'm doing just fine nearly 20y later - I'm a whole lot better off than when I was being called a "kept woman" by someone who wasn't exactly pulling their own weight Grin

MinnieMous3 · 24/03/2021 21:04

@YNK

This reminds me of when my ex issued his last ultimatum.

When called on it he started pulling/pushing me about shouting
"You won't survive without me! You are nothing but a wastrel"

I'm doing just fine nearly 20y later - I'm a whole lot better off than when I was being called a "kept woman" by someone who wasn't exactly pulling their own weight Grin

That’s exactly the sort of logic I would expect from SNP supporters.
YNK · 24/03/2021 21:05

@YNK

This reminds me of when my ex issued his last ultimatum.

When called on it he started pulling/pushing me about shouting
"You won't survive without me! You are nothing but a wastrel"

I'm doing just fine nearly 20y later - I'm a whole lot better off than when I was being called a "kept woman" by someone who wasn't exactly pulling their own weight Grin

It did take me nearly a year to push him out the door though!
HamFisted · 24/03/2021 21:09

@YNK, well done! It's hard to walk away from abuse and I'm very pleased to hear you've done well since.

WeirdArchitecture · 24/03/2021 21:51

id never considered nationalists as left wing.
but wings in general aren't my thing.

MinnieMous3 · 25/03/2021 13:30

@WeirdArchitecture

id never considered nationalists as left wing. but wings in general aren't my thing.
It’s odd isn’t it? It seems ‘nationalism’ is only okay if it isn’t English nationalism. Frankly, I don’t think any nationalism is a good thing particularly, because all it does is create ‘them’ and ‘us’.

I think the Scottish nationalists like to kid themselves that they’re left wing and ‘their’ nationalism is okay, but it has all the hallmarks of any other nationalist group - stoking division, creating a ‘they’re out to get you’ paranoia, reliance on identity politics, and a belief that ‘co-operation is for losers’.

Williamthebruce · 25/03/2021 15:38

@MinnieMous3

My links were just to show the Barnett formula myth is just that, a myth. At the end of the day it will obviously cost more to deliver public services to 5.8m people across 78,000km2 than 55m people across 123km2. That's just reality and isn't unfair in the slightest, unless you think people in less densely populated areas don't deserve the same access to education, health care and public services as those in more populous places?

I'm also glad you posted the full fact article as it further backs up my previous point.

For example
"Some of the UK government’s spending is notional or ‘non-identifiable spending’. That means the money isn’t necessarily spent in Scotland, but does reflect its share of spending on the UK as a whole. This includes things like defence spending."

Which was the point I previously made(and you glossed over). When England decide to renew trident, or build a high speed railway (that'll never reach Scotland), or host a giant sports day in London, they get to pass some of that cost on to the other UK nations and then have the cheek to claim we're spending more than we generate.

I must also point out that Scotland can't run a deficit according to the Budget (Scotland) Act and we must delivery a balanced budget every year (which we do). The deficit they make reference to in the article comes from the GERS figures, which are widely held as shite, and attempt to apportion a share of the UK deficit across Scotland.
When you apply the same process across all UK regions only London and the South East are in surplus. This is simply because that's where most companies have registered their HQs hence that's where the majority of UK tax revenue is registered.
To further illustrate their unreliability take the oil and gas figures. Any oil and gas that is exported directly from the offshore fields, or that is landed/processed outside of Scotland aren't counted as Scottish revenue, even though they are a Scottish resource.

Finally, I'll end this quote from your article

"If Scotland were to become independent, the IFS says the future finances would depend on a number of different things; in particular the share of the UK debt Scotland would negotiate taking on, how the Scottish economy would perform after independence, and what policies the Scottish government introduced."

So essentially they admit they've not a clue how Scotland would do as an independent nation and all the previous talk is based on assumptions and guesswork.

UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 15:43

Co-operation is for losers?

That's how you characterise our desire to be a committed member of the EU.

How odd. Maybe we just want to take charge of who we co-operate with.

MinnieMous3 · 25/03/2021 15:47

When England decide to renew trident, or build a high speed railway (that'll never reach Scotland), or host a giant sports day in London, they get to pass some of that cost on to the other UK nations and then have the cheek to claim we're spending more than we generate.

Why is it a cheek? Trident protects the U.K. as a whole, not just England. The high speed railway doesn’t reach my part of England either, personally I think it’s a stupid idea but not for that reason. As for the Olympics, the money raised from that once again went into the communal pot. I’m critical of London centricism but even I can see it made more sense to hold it there than in, say, Lincoln.

And as PP pointed out, if the money is ‘all of ours’, why are you objecting to us ‘borrowing from ourselves’?

Scotland has been more in deficit than the other countries for a number of years. Taken from the gov website:

As a percentage of Scotland's GDP the notional deficit increased from -7.4% in 2018-19 to -8.6% in 2019-20. For comparison the UK's deficit rose from -1.9% of GDP to -2.5% over the same period. New members of the EU are required to have a deficit less than 3% of GDP.

Basically Scotland handles its finances so badly the EU wouldn’t let them join even with the Uk’s financial backing, let alone without it.

SmokedDuck · 25/03/2021 16:04

@forfucksakenett

Happy to have our own currency I mean. In a union of two we might have to sort it out between us who got to keep the pound. I think sense would prevail and we would both use it.
I think the issue is who would back the currency and who would make the decisions about how much to put in the system, etc. If it was both that's going to mean substantial financial union.

Some countries do use the money of other nations, for example they might use US dollars rather than have their own currency. But that means they have a real dependency on the US and also can do little to influence the currency.

StoneofDestiny · 25/03/2021 16:08

Why do the nats hate the English? And please don't say 'oh its just Westminster we loathe!' the bile and vitriol is very apparent as demonstrated by your childish comment

That comment is the most childish yet.
Scottish Nationalists don't hate the English, many who voted SNP are actually English living in Scotland and many are Scots married to English people. This isn't about hating anybody, it's about wanting the government you vote for in power, enforcing the values you hold dearest to your country.

As for rebuilding Hadrian's Wall - some people need to check their geography to see where that wall is actually built, and whose country it actually crosses.

UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 16:15

Have literally never heard anyone spew bile or vitriol about English people, not even at SNP meetings. It's very much focused on wanting direct political influence, and not being the very junior partner in what is allegedly a nation of equals.

MinnieMous3 · 25/03/2021 16:16

@UnderHisAye

Have literally never heard anyone spew bile or vitriol about English people, not even at SNP meetings. It's very much focused on wanting direct political influence, and not being the very junior partner in what is allegedly a nation of equals.
Really? Not even the PP ‘pathetic little island full of insular xenophobes’?
Pumperthepumper · 25/03/2021 16:18

@MinnieMous3 is so desperate for this wind up, they’ve actually posted another thread about it

UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 16:18

Think you misquoted someone a bit there tbh.

"England has become such a little country, such a pathetic, insular little island. Scared of foreigners and desperate to cling to former glory."

MinnieMous3 · 25/03/2021 16:19

[quote Pumperthepumper]@MinnieMous3 is so desperate for this wind up, they’ve actually posted another thread about it[/quote]
Yep, I’m interested to see what my fellow countrymen think!

ssd · 25/03/2021 17:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 17:11

Don't troll hunt @ssd report if you've got suspicions

MinnieMous3 · 25/03/2021 17:14

I change my username regularly to avoid being recognised, I think many users of MN do? So I can neither confirm nor deny.

Highwoman · 25/03/2021 17:18

Jeezo, anyone from outside the UK reading this will immediately understand why Scotland wants its independence.