Nicola Sturgeon has done a number on the English left.

[derxa]

A white wash report. Misuse of public money. Shower of incompetents in SNP government. Rotten education. Using covid as a political tool.
I could weep for my country.
Yet people like James O'Brien continue to arse lick Nicola

Five pages in. Have we established what it's got to do with the English yet?

Well, we would have a second Brexit if Scotland left, so it is to do with England. The English would have to agree on currency, a border, trade, visas (or not as the case would probably be!)

So yes, it isn’t so outrageous that the English have an opinion. It isn’t all about you.

It’s quite interesting because all of these responses are what the Brexiteers used against the European Union -
‘If you think that little of us, why do you want to keep us anyway?’
‘What has it got to do with them? They shouldn’t even have an opinion’
‘They think they’re so much better than us’
‘We want our INDEPENDENCE because they’re, like, so controlling’

With zero idea as to how it would work afterwards, and sticking fingers in ears when it comes to the enormous benefits of staying. It’s all just nationalism for nationalism’s sake. Apart from when the Scottish people express it, it’s okay, when England did it’s because they think they’re so superior.

Beware.

@MinnieMous3

It’s quite interesting because all of these responses are what the Brexiteers used against the European Union - ‘If you think that little of us, why do you want to keep us anyway?’ ‘What has it got to do with them? They shouldn’t even have an opinion’ ‘They think they’re so much better than us’ ‘We want our INDEPENDENCE because they’re, like, so controlling’

With zero idea as to how it would work afterwards, and sticking fingers in ears when it comes to the enormous benefits of staying. It’s all just nationalism for nationalism’s sake. Apart from when the Scottish people express it, it’s okay, when England did it’s because they think they’re so superior.

Beware.

That’s bollocks though, it’s been talked about repeatedly on this thread. My guess is taxes would have to rise and budgets would have to be cut. Some people think that’s worth it. I don’t.

I haven’t seen a single bus in Scotland with a massive poster of immigrants standing queued. Let’s not pretend Scottish independence is anything like English nationalism.

And also, if you don’t want to be accused of being over invested, maybe stop using phrases like ‘it isn’t all about you’. Just have a discussion.

I also note that upthread it was claimed that we all just want FREEDOM with no other explanation; I then provided an explanation about the democratic deficit which exists, and yet you obviously ignored it so you could claim we've all said things like "We want our INDEPENDENCE because they’re, like, so controlling’.

Nobody thinks like that. The thing is, Scotland and England have become more culturally diverged over the last few decades, in large part due to Farage pushing politics to the right. I don't want to live somewhere the right will almost always be in control (and even if it's Labour they're unrecognisable from the party of my youth).

Is it really so bad that I want to choose a future for my children which holds civic nationalism at its heart?

Whether the SNP are capable of that is a different question, but I see something different is possible for Scotland, and I'd like the freedom to explore it and vote for it.

'Five pages in. Have we established what it's got to do with the English yet?'

Well, you are part of the UK so of course it has got something to do with us .

Why do the nats hate the English? And please don't say 'oh its just Westminster we loathe!' the bile and vitriol is very apparent as demonstrated by your childish comment.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Five pages in. Have we established what it's got to do with the English yet?'

Well, you are part of the UK so of course it has got something to do with us .

Why do the nats hate the English? And please don't say 'oh its just Westminster we loathe!' the bile and vitriol is very apparent as demonstrated by your childish comment.

I’d say there’s massively more anti-Scot sentiment on this thread than anti-English, did you read Wondermule’s tirade?

I don't know if I'm a 'nat' but I don't hate 'the English'. I just want a healthier political landscape in which to exist.

@UnderHisAye

I also note that upthread it was claimed that we all just want FREEDOM with no other explanation; I then provided an explanation about the democratic deficit which exists, and yet you obviously ignored it so you could claim we've all said things like "We want our INDEPENDENCE because they’re, like, so controlling’.

Nobody thinks like that. The thing is, Scotland and England have become more culturally diverged over the last few decades, in large part due to Farage pushing politics to the right. I don't want to live somewhere the right will almost always be in control (and even if it's Labour they're unrecognisable from the party of my youth).

Is it really so bad that I want to choose a future for my children which holds civic nationalism at its heart?

Whether the SNP are capable of that is a different question, but I see something different is possible for Scotland, and I'd like the freedom to explore it and vote for it.

I understand where you’re coming from, but there isn’t a democratic deficit - you have your own Parliament that control all internal affairs.

How is that less democratic than, say, the fact Cornwall is represented by London?

The entire system needs to be better, we need more regional powers, better ways of holding people to account, and a different voting system.

I suppose what I’m more interested in is how you all propose Scotland would function as an independent country, and pay for itself - without any more bail outs from Westminster, would it be worth seeing the education system sink and sky high taxes, just to say on paper you have more of a vote?

@Pumperthepumper what was said that was more insulting than ‘pathetic little island’ etc?

Maybe every county in England with a similarly small 5m population could fight for independence. Everyone could have their own King or Queen. Lovely.

What about Orkney don't they want independence from the snp? will the islands all form their own union. It's all so tedious, like going back in time to tribes.

[quote MinnieMous3]@Pumperthepumper what was said that was more insulting than ‘pathetic little island’ etc?[/quote]
Yes. Read it.

@Pumperthepumper can you quote specifically as the pathetic island comment was the most hateful I can see on here?

If I were Westminster, I would hold another referendum but only on the basis that Scotland doesn’t share our currency. If they do, we would still have to endlessly bail them out to stop their financial ruin from affecting our currency’s worth. If the SNP are that confident Scotland is economically viable as an independent nation, they should create their own currency. After all wouldn’t they want to protect it from the English who will inevitably face ruin without them?

[quote Wondermule]@Pumperthepumper

You’re obsessed with reading ingratitude into everything 😂😂 is this projection? Do you feel you should be grateful?

My point is that the SNP can’t control Scotland’s finances even when they have the support of the Barnett formula.

As for tax rises, that is WHY they had to go to Westminster with the begging bowl - they refused to raise income tax so didn’t raise enough money, and pinched it from the U.K. purse instead. A billion pounds.

So actually yes you should be grateful, I would be if my services were being propped up by another country’s taxes.[/quote]
@MinnieMous3 here’s one

[quote Wondermule]@Pumperthepumper

You’re doing it again, I never said Scotland was my enemy. Just objectively commenting on why independence just isn’t a good idea for you. Which has incurred a lot of wrath and bizarre accusations of superiority. I hate Westminster probably more than you do.

As for my county, we are probably underfunded because Scotland’s taking our tax money 😂[/quote]
@MinnieMous3 another

@MinnieMous3 and one about rebuilding Hadrian’s wall that I think was deleted.

Well, Cornwall is a problem for the Cornish, I don't honestly care about the Cornish fight for freedom

Yes, we have control over devolved issues, but things like defence, foreign policy, immigration, trade, the constitution for goodness' sake, we have virtually no influence at all. That's never going to sit right with me in this alleged nation of equals.

It’s not phrased nicely but it’s true isn’t it? If England asked Scotland to bail it out a billion pounds, I can only imagine the comments on here. They would be a lot, lot worse.

@UnderHisAye so you’re fully prepared to form your own army, navy, Air Force, border police, and trade agreements? Given Sturgeon can’t even control internal finances at the moment?

@MinnieMous3

It’s not phrased nicely but it’s true isn’t it? If England asked Scotland to bail it out a billion pounds, I can only imagine the comments on here. They would be a lot, lot worse.

Who cares about mythical threads on stuff that probably won’t happen? That’s in response to a PP complaining everyone hates the English, and my reply that there’s massively more anti-Scot sentiment here than the opposite.

Well, Sturgeon might have absolutely nothing to do with it. That's the problem with this debate: people keep going on about Sturgeon as if she is the Prime Minister of an independent Scotland.

There would be a general election called, in which I may or may note vote SNP.

But yes, of course we'd have to set up our own institutions. But there would be a deal done with rUK where we'd have to divide assets so we'd have a wee bit of pocket money to get started. I don't earn a fortune but I'd be glad to put my taxes into building a new nation.

@Pumperthepumper but that’s an actual fact, not a pure insult like ‘pathetic little island’ etc

It seems you think the fact it was brought up is in itself anti Scottish

I think you know the answer to that hypothetical but are trying to dismiss it because it’s embarrassing.

[quote MinnieMous3]@Pumperthepumper but that’s an actual fact, not a pure insult like ‘pathetic little island’ etc

It seems you think the fact it was brought up is in itself anti Scottish

I think you know the answer to that hypothetical but are trying to dismiss it because it’s embarrassing.[/quote]
And rebuilding Hadrian’s wall? That a fact too?

It’s not embarrassing, it’s just pointless. You’re here to have a go - that’s what’s embarrassing me.

Pumper the only person embarrassing themselves is you - with your obvious fact dodging and victim complex, determined to take offence at everything. It’s sad actually.