Nicola Sturgeon has done a number on the English left.

[derxa]

A white wash report. Misuse of public money. Shower of incompetents in SNP government. Rotten education. Using covid as a political tool.
I could weep for my country.
Yet people like James O'Brien continue to arse lick Nicola

@forfucksakenett

Give me a point and I'll refute it if I can.

How about the one I’ve made eleventy billion times?

How do you propose financial independence from a Union that you’ve had to ask to bail you out twice over the last few years? To the tune of over a billion pounds? And given the same government who cocked up the finances is the one you propose to run a newt independent Scotland, how do you trust them with a much bigger economic responsibility?

@forfucksakenett

Why would an independent Scotland be going to England for money? What a bizarre superiority complex you have.

Because they keep coming to the Union for money now, and that’s with a bigger budget than they would ever have if they were independent.

Let’s reverse that - if you think an independent Scotland would be so financially secure, why don’t the SNP request a Scottish currency to ensure the rest of the UK can’t devalue it?

We are a union apparently? Are we going to ourself for money? What a strange notion.

Why should we? The pound is as much ours as it is yours. It would be simpler to continue using it.

Yes I trust them completely with the economic responsibility. What we have now is unnecessarily complex.

Our own country, our own taxes, our own exports.

Let me ask you a question. If it's really true as you say that Scotland is unfairly talk advantage of money that isn't ours then why does WM allow it to happen?

Unfairly takes advantage

@forfucksakenett

We are a union apparently? Are we going to ourself for money? What a strange notion.

Why should we? The pound is as much ours as it is yours. It would be simpler to continue using it.

Well considering the vast majority of the money is earned by England, yes it is a strange notion to take more than your fair share and then complain about not having financial independence.

Simpler to continue using it 😂😂 don’t you want your own proud currency with William Wallace on it or something? If you think you’ll be financially better off as an independent nation that the rest of the UK, your own currency would protect you from the rest of the UK devaluing it. I have a sneaky suspicion NS knows this isn’t the case, which is why she wants to keep the currency, so when Scotland tanks we have no choice but to bail you out again.

'We are a union apparently? Are we going to ourself for money? What a strange notion.'

Well every council has an allocated budget, it isn’t that much of a 'strange notion' surely to understand that devolved administrations do too and should indeed adhere to said budget.

@forfucksakenett

Let me ask you a question. If it's really true as you say that Scotland is unfairly talk advantage of money that isn't ours then why does WM allow it to happen?

Because it would be too complicated to allow it not to happen. Look at the mess that is Brexit. Now imagine it bring ten times more complicated because we share a border and a currency. Should Scotland rejoin the EU in some distant dream, that would create another NI border problem, which would take yet more years to thrash out. I think Westminster would have gladly let you go if it meant a physical severance of land mass, but this obviously cannot happen

There we go, I can actually answer questions put to me

More money earned by England how? You certainly raise more taxes which would be expected as you have 10x the population. What else do you have to offer that makes you so much more different to us?

It's our currency too. You might not like that but it doesn't make it any less true. This was a willing union of countries. It wasn't a hostile takeover.

Do you have any evidence to suggest our economy would tank? Anything at all to suggest why we couldn't run along just fine as a small independent country?

You haven't answered my question at all.

Why do they give us the extra money then? Why don't they just say no?

William Wallace 🙄

You have an odd notion of what Independence supporters are like. We're not all traipsing about in woad.

That Braveheart crap makes you sound like a right fanny tbh.

It's our currency too. You might not like that but it doesn't make it any less true. This was a willing union of countries. It wasn't a hostile takeover.

Exactly, it’s the Union’s currency, in the same was the euro is the EU’s. You don’t get to leave and take it with you. It is a currency for that Union and that Union alone.

It's not a dealbreaker for me keeping the pound.

Any answer to my question? Why give us money?

Happy to have our own currency I mean. In a union of two we might have to sort it out between us who got to keep the pound. I think sense would prevail and we would both use it.

You have the Scottish pound, why not use that? It will just be a separate currency from Sterling which comes from the Bank of England.

I said why Westminster gives you money. Because if your economy tanks then so does ours, because we share a currency. If the Scottish govt goes into debt, then we all do. Plus England is honour bound to keep Scotland going as it is still part of the Union. It’s beyond infuriating that the SNP can’t control their spending and tax their citizens properly, and that The rest of the U.K. has to clean up the mess.

@forfucksakenett

Happy to have our own currency I mean. In a union of two we might have to sort it out between us who got to keep the pound. I think sense would prevail and we would both use it.

Well no because Westminster have said they won’t allow it. You want independence, fine, but you can create your own bank like every other independent country. Why should we run one for you?

I'm sorry @MinnieMous3 I can't stop laughing at England being honour bound to keep us going. Fucking hilarious. You win the internet for the day. England are really famous for their honour 🤣

All four nations are in debt. England allow the Barnett formula because we bring in way more per head than England do.

WM has the power to revoke devolution. If they felt things were going south then that's exactly what they would do and then we would be run as a region. For some reason they don't do this. I wonder why.

England needs the union. England needs Scotland, Ireland and Wales not the other way round. We are small nations that could sustain ourselves easily.

@MinnieMous3 yes they'll say a lot of things. They want to put people off voting for independence.

The reality will potentially be very different.

Huh?! Holyrood gets its own budget for internal affairs (and then some) so why on Earth should they get to take another billion out of the pot? If more was spent per head on English citizens than on Scottish ones, yet England still saw fit to dip into the communal funds to the tune of a billion pounds simply because it didn’t want to tax its citizens properly, you would all be foaming at the mouth, ranting about English superiority and blatant bias etc.

Honestly the double standards on here is really quite breathtaking.

Frankly I can’t ever see a time when Scotland won’t be begging the rest of the UK for cash, yet still beating its chest about being a proud nation capable of independence.

It’s a joke!

Christ on a stick, you're either deliberately being obtuse or are just dense.

England doesn't "tax its citizens appropriately". It uses the UK government's borrowing power to plug any gaps while also trying to deny the other 3 nations the ability to do the same.

Once again, the UK government is meant to be an equal union for Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales, NOT England's own personal piggy bank.

Yet, that's exactly what we have now. Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales all have put their money in the UK pot yet only England gets to decide who spends what and when. Worse still England constantly add to the UK deficient for vanity projects that only benefit them, then expect everyone else to pay towards it. You're using the UKs funds to spend 3-4 times Scotland's annual budget on a train that shaves 20mins off a train journey from London to Birmingham ffs!

The pandemic has really shone a spotlight on this issue. When Scotland wanted to extend furlough they were told "no" you've had your money, there's none left deal with it. Yet, only a month or so later England decided they wanted to extend furlough so simply used the UKs borrowing powers to fund it, no questions asked.

The way England uses the UK government as its on personal account while denying the other "equal" account holders the same opportunity is the real fucking joke!

Additionally, the spend per head in Scotland is a complete red herring. If you're on about the Barnett formula then please read up on it before peddling more myths.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/03/ireallydontlikeaddressing

www.heraldscotland.com/news/12202948.10-facts-you-need-to-know-about-the-barnett-myth/

www.businessforscotland.com/the-barnett-formula-myth-destroyed-it-does-not-subsidise-scotland/

we bring in way more per head than England do.

Wrong. No stats have been published by SNP on total tax revenue in nearly 10 years. Before that, Scotland did bring in more per head, but only due to the oil reserves - not due to a strong resilient economy, but due to one industry dependent on a finite natural resource. This advance was then completely cancelled out by the high rate of spending needed to keep Scotland afloat.

If you brought in ‘way more per head’ then you wouldn’t need the UK government to bail out out of the massive income deficit that Scotland racked up over the last few years.

WM has the power to revoke devolution. If they felt things were going south then that's exactly what they would do and then we would be run as a region. For some reason they don't do this. I wonder why.

Maybe something called civil unrest?

England needs the union. England needs Scotland, Ireland and Wales not the other way round. We are small nations that could sustain ourselves easily.

Hahaaa! I actually laughed out loud at that one. NI is run at an enormous loss, which is why even Dublin don’t want it. You need to do some fact checking there I think.

I think it's you who needs to do some fact checking. We do bring in more per head.

The UK GOV Couldn't give a shit about civil unrest.

I forget your last point, oh yes. Their reasons for needing NI aren't financial but political.

@forfucksakenett

I think it's you who needs to do some fact checking. We do bring in more per head.

The UK GOV Couldn't give a shit about civil unrest.

I forget your last point, oh yes. Their reasons for needing NI aren't financial but political.

we do bring in more per head

This is just a mantra like ‘Brexit means Brexit’. Without the SNP submitting figures for nearly a decade, how could you possibly say?

@Williamthebruce those articles only discuss Scotland and London. They don’t take into account the whole of England or even the U.K.

Plus the last article is nearly 15 years old, conveniently written before SNP stopped publishing the figures...