To be crying over the Caroline Flack programme?

[Franch2892]

I don't really cry at TV or movies usually but this really hit me.
I finished watching the programme feeling somewhat 'depressed'.
I felt it was very relatable.
I've had times of depression and horrible thoughts and seeing her mum and friends talk about her made me realise how loved most people don't even realise they are.

It just hit me after the documentary how quickly people can be taken away and how we just never see them again.

I don't know, it's just made me really really sad

@Hangingover

Speaking as a recovering addict who used to work in the celebrity world I felt there was probably quite a big omission from that show. I understand why the family wouldn't have wanted to talk about it though.

These were my thoughts too.

Also, the posters saying that she repeatedly asked for help, I think the point was, despite family support, she never faced up to her issues, which is very common. She could have afforded a discreet trip to The Priory. Maybe she did, but the family never mentioned this. It was very much the narrative that she was lost for years without treatment and in denial.

There’s no denying that CF was made an example because of her celeb status. Things like this happen everyday and you don’t see them featured in the press. For me that is the issue. It’s her celeb status that people were hung up on.

I think Someone with her history should of stepped away from the spotlight long before. It's a cruel world with tabloids and social media and I think if you aren't mentally robust it's not a place you should be. She should of took the money she had made and left the limelight , such a sad story.

I do have sympathy for her, she obviously had issues even when a young girl, not many individuals have a fascination with suicide. Regardless of this I do believe CPS were right to charge her when she assaulted her boyfriend, no one knows exactly what happened but there was evidence of assault, it it had been her boyfriend assaulting her people would have expected him to be charged.
I also think she was too mentally fragile a person to be in the public eye, it's not unknown how brutal the press can be. If you go into an industry that needs the press, you need to be strong enough to deal with any press that comes your way, good or bad.

@NailsNeedDoing

All we know is that it was a one off argument, I dont think she can be labeled a domestic abuser, there is no evidence to suggest she is (doesnt mean she wasn't but not one personon here has shown any proof otherwise).

So when a man hits a woman, is it not really domestic abuse until he hits her more than once? Should we only attempt to protect women from violence when they have clear evidence of more than one attack on them, because it doesn’t really count until it’s happened more than once?

So when a man drink drives repeatedly we should not let him have his job back? So when a man is accused of sexual abuse several times he should be allowed to keep making films until there are so many examples of this abuse we can’t ignore it any more?

If you’re worried about domestic abuse perpetrators getting a raw deal, I’m interested in why you think that means we have to change our behaviour towards women? If your house was on fire, would you put that out first or would you start with the shed?

Nailsneeddoing - you know I didnt say that, I was commenting on her being an abuser. To me personally, that means she was abusing him regularly, from my understanding she was guilty (possibly) of one domestic abuse incident. I have said all along it deserved punishment, I have never once suggested otherwise. Once is more than enough but she was going through the court process, what more do you want? At the end of the day, she lost everything for one incident that still hadn't even gone to trial. Everyone decided she was a violent abuser that deserved everything thrown at her. No one knows the full facts, she didn't get to go to trial because the press were so vile and had made it their purpose to ensure everyone thought she was 100% guilty.

I pushed an ex boyfriend once, he was in my face telling how amazing the woman was he had cheated on me with, in the heat of the moment I pushed him away from me. I was 18, he was a fair bit older. If he had fell back and cut himself does that make me an abuser? I suspect not but if he was hurt perhaps I would have been charged for some sort of assault or domestic abuse.

The point is there is a lot of speculation here.

@May17th

There’s no denying that CF was made an example because of her celeb status. Things like this happen everyday and you don’t see them featured in the press. For me that is the issue. It’s her celeb status that people were hung up on.

The answer should be to charge more 'regular' people who are abusive, not to not charge famous people. I don't know if she was made an example of or not, but if you don't want to be made an example of, maybe don't assault anyone.

@May17th

There’s no denying that CF was made an example because of her celeb status. Things like this happen everyday and you don’t see them featured in the press. For me that is the issue. It’s her celeb status that people were hung up on.

Then that shows more people who commit domestic violence need to be charged not that she shouldn't have been.

Yes of course more people should be charged for DV. Even one offs. Very few people on here have said they don't think she should have been charged though.

@Doingitaloneandproud get off your high horse.

Wtf? People who think DV perpetrators should be charged need to 'get off their high horse'?

@raskolnikova

Wtf? People who think DV perpetrators should be charged need to 'get off their high horse'?

Where did I say CF should not be charged? Did I say that at any point? I said she was been reprimanded.... also she was made an example as she was a celeb.

Yes you need to get off of your high horse. Your being obtuse.

Someone replied to you saying that people who commit DV should be charged and you tell them to get off their high horse. I find that shocking.

How am I being obtuse? Please explain so I can be clearer.

Something that struck me too was how her sister had said they had been expecting her to end her life for a very long time, and how it had been a constant concern for the family. This really is the reality of people you love committing suicide. It is not a surprise.

My best friend killed herself last year, actually just a week after Caroline, and for the past few years whenever I hugged her goodbye my eyes filled with tears because I felt each time it would be the last time I’d see her.

I remember often I would say this to my partner and he’d say: ‘well do something’ but I think, unless you have been extremely close to someone suicidal, it’s very hard to comprehend the idea that there is very little you can do.

For my friend, I think of her suicide as the tragic outcome to a complex, serious and terminal illness. For the last few years, it was clear that this illness, for her, was in its final stage. I don’t think this is something people really understand. Hearing Caroline’s sister talk about it was comforting, in a way.

@RootyT00t

There are some disgusting comments here.

Caroline never denied assaulting her boyfriend. She did not deserve what she got.

The blood stains were hers.

You don't know that unless you have the DNA analysis.

Allegedly -He had a head injury -and from personal experience -they bleed A LOT! So allegedly, he woke up being hit by a lamp, after someone had invaded his privacy going through his phone -he was scared enough to phone 999 in fear of his life. Then she tries to committ suicde in front of him slashing her wrists or whatever - fucking traumatic for HIM -don't you think? What about his mental health? his physical health? It's all well and good to sugar coat a glaze over that. A man doing that -to a woman -would have got similiar treatment by the press etc in the position she was in. I'm not saying it is right -the press is dire and that is a seperate issue -and needs new laws to help protect people.

You can say she was fragile, damaged etc -but when does it become a responsibility for yourself not to hit others etc ---and I stress this is all allegedly -no case in court.

She should not have done the things she did to him (if the rumours are true). But the fact is, he was hit, he did phone 999.

I have phoned 999 once -with my ex I was scared he was going to kill me and the police in my case we useless and he did not get charged despite me having to go for x rays etc.

Female to male violence does happen and I have no problem with the court's decision to forbid her to contact him. A crime -a serious one was reported.

The press is dire and will hound people as do some people on line etc -that's not right.

But let's not forget some of the other facts- such as his phone calls.

Something tells me there are a lot of men on here trying to diminish male to female DV by scrutinising female to male DV.

A man doing that -to a woman -would have got similiar treatment by the press etc in the position she was in.

They wouldn’t though. We always have to wait for more than one woman to come forward before we start to question the men we admire.

Ant Middleton drink driving is a prime example of ‘gender roles reversed’ - we are much more forgiving of men.

@PugInTheHouse

Nailsneeddoing - you know I didnt say that, I was commenting on her being an abuser. To me personally, that means she was abusing him regularly, from my understanding she was guilty (possibly) of one domestic abuse incident. I have said all along it deserved punishment, I have never once suggested otherwise. Once is more than enough but she was going through the court process, what more do you want? At the end of the day, she lost everything for one incident that still hadn't even gone to trial. Everyone decided she was a violent abuser that deserved everything thrown at her. No one knows the full facts, she didn't get to go to trial because the press were so vile and had made it their purpose to ensure everyone thought she was 100% guilty.

I pushed an ex boyfriend once, he was in my face telling how amazing the woman was he had cheated on me with, in the heat of the moment I pushed him away from me. I was 18, he was a fair bit older. If he had fell back and cut himself does that make me an abuser? I suspect not but if he was hurt perhaps I would have been charged for some sort of assault or domestic abuse.

The point is there is a lot of speculation here.

An abuser can do it once, twice, ten times or a million.

I teach my children not to put their hands on ANYONE.

Do you actually know how hard it is to provide evidence or abuse? I phoned 999 I had a small child as a witness, I had a bruised elbow and suspected broken elbow - I had an x ray -it wasn't enough. He still denies it happened. Still nearly a decade on.

@Pumperthepumper

I genuinely don’t understand what you mean with your response. My point is that one act of violence should be enough for someone to be considered abusive in a domestic situation, as it will almost always be accompanied by some form of emotional abuse as well.

I’m not sure why you think I’m saying that we have to change our behaviour towards women. Where have I said that? In the post you quoted I was responding to someone else’s post which I felt was minimising domestic violence as a one off argument, and I don’t think that’s acceptable regardless of what sex the aggressor is.

My main feeling throughout all of this is that if we can recognise that a woman’s violence has come from untreated mental illness then we should be able to recognise that a lot of male violence comes from the exact same place, and in order to protect everyone from that violence (although it would be mainly women) we need significantly better mental health services.

I'm a victim of male to female DV. I've been told to get off my high horse because I think people who commit assault should be charged.

[quote NailsNeedDoing]@Pumperthepumper

I genuinely don’t understand what you mean with your response. My point is that one act of violence should be enough for someone to be considered abusive in a domestic situation, as it will almost always be accompanied by some form of emotional abuse as well.

I’m not sure why you think I’m saying that we have to change our behaviour towards women. Where have I said that? In the post you quoted I was responding to someone else’s post which I felt was minimising domestic violence as a one off argument, and I don’t think that’s acceptable regardless of what sex the aggressor is.

My main feeling throughout all of this is that if we can recognise that a woman’s violence has come from untreated mental illness then we should be able to recognise that a lot of male violence comes from the exact same place, and in order to protect everyone from that violence (although it would be mainly women) we need significantly better mental health services.[/quote]
And yet, your repeated insistence on this thread is ‘if the roles were reversed’ and ‘if a man did this’ - when in fact, we don’t need to reverse the roles to discuss how famous men are treated vs famous women. We know society wants to pretend women are just as bad, and it’s not true.

Again, if Caroline Flack had been a man, this scenario would barely even have registered because we regularly see much, much worse from
famous men who are then forgiven immediately.

You cannot pretend that male and female violence are the same, so you cannot pretend we should treat them the same.

Yazzyup - it is not right that someone isn't charged though, I have never said that.

I dont agree I was an abuser for pushing someone once because they were in my face shouting at me. There was no emotional abuse, from my side anyway, plenty the other way round towards me.

I would like to think everyone teaches their children not to be violent, my youngest DS was bullied for 5 years by the same person only ever verbally. One day the other child was saying awful things to him yet again and DS shoved him, the boy wasn't hurt but did fall into some chairs and fell on the floor. My DS is not a violent abuser but was pushed to his limits. He's never done it again. Obviously we had a conversation that he shouldn't have done it however I really dont blame him. Its not a domestic situation but still violence.

There are lots of people saying 'facts' on here. Let's not forget these are only facts there were printed in the papers. Not court documents from what I understand?

I’m not pretending that they are the same, but I don’t think that a women who acts violently should be treated with more leniency than a man who acts violently.

I want equality in society, and that means that where a very similar crime is committed by both a man and a woman, the outcomes should be the same. We can never expect to be treated equally as women if at the same time we expect more leniency when it comes to the justice system just for being women.

The way the media portrays people according to their sex, or class, or race, or whatever is wrong, and often society’s responses to stories in the media is different depending on whether the person is male or female etc. But the media isn’t the justice system, and unless you are a famous person that is involved in the media, it’s pretty easy to ignore.

And yet, your repeated insistence on this thread is ‘if the roles were reversed’ and ‘if a man did this’ - when in fact, we don’t need to reverse the roles to discuss how famous men are treated vs famous women.

I disagree and think that sometimes, we do need to reverse the roles, because that’s what highlights the disparity. When it’s clear that men and women are being treated differently in a similar situation, it is a good thing to consider whether the response would be the same if the roles were reversed. We compare other things all the time, like how much more men get paid in similar positions to women, or how much more women have been affected by lockdown, and all it does is highlight the unfairness and inequality.

Men and women don’t need to be treated any differently by the justice system any more than any other individuals need to be treated differently according to the circumstances.