To be crying over the Caroline Flack programme?

[Franch2892]

I don't really cry at TV or movies usually but this really hit me.
I finished watching the programme feeling somewhat 'depressed'.
I felt it was very relatable.
I've had times of depression and horrible thoughts and seeing her mum and friends talk about her made me realise how loved most people don't even realise they are.

It just hit me after the documentary how quickly people can be taken away and how we just never see them again.

I don't know, it's just made me really really sad

@JohannaC

Non famous people struggling with similar issues I meant.

Disgusting comment. Do you work in metal health? Or care?

No matter how much money you have got you can still have depression or be an alcoholic... it makes no difference.

Clearly other wise if money fixed everything why did other ex cast members of Love Island take their life’s??

Ridiculous comment and really insensitive. It is not a competition suicide!!

@Whenthesunshines

So much came out after her death that it was clear it wasn't how they made it out to be, they have learnt no lessons over the years, in fact I think the press have got worse. I feel so so strongly about it.

THIS

People believe everything these scummy ‘journalists’ write. They don’t report the truth and this has been proved time and time again. Yet, people still believe what is written.

People are either thick or just love anything scandalous and don’t care whether it is accurate or not.

It’s WHERE it’s written. And for which purpose.

@JohannaC

Oh get over yourself. It's quite clear from my previous comment that I'm talking about how people feel sorry for famous people who they don't know but disregard many others they see struggling in daily life - hence my comment about how people feel sorry for Megan Markle but ignore that woman sleeping behind the wheelie bins.

Exactly

@JohannaC

Oh get over yourself. It's quite clear from my previous comment that I'm talking about how people feel sorry for famous people who they don't know but disregard many others they see struggling in daily life - hence my comment about how people feel sorry for Megan Markle but ignore that woman sleeping behind the wheelie bins.

I don't really understand the comparison.

Totally inappropriate documentary. There is no excuse for domestic abuse, and we should not be producing hagiographies about abusers to explain away their crimes with "oh they were so troubled". And barely anyone has mentioned her dating an actual child.

I don't think she was treated more harshly because she was a woman. I think she was treated the appropriate amount of harshly by the state, but the media (post-suicide) has been absurdly sympathetic. For people saying a man wouldn't have been treated the same way, Justin Lee Collins was a high flying TV presenter before his domestic abuse conviction and now his name is dirt and his career is over.

By the way, it's 2 women a week (too many), not 3.

@Hont1986

Totally inappropriate documentary. There is no excuse for domestic abuse, and we should not be producing hagiographies about abusers to explain away their crimes with "oh they were so troubled". And barely anyone has mentioned her dating an actual child.

I don't think she was treated more harshly because she was a woman. I think she was treated the appropriate amount of harshly by the state, but the media (post-suicide) has been absurdly sympathetic. For people saying a man wouldn't have been treated the same way, Justin Lee Collins was a high flying TV presenter before his domestic abuse conviction and now his name is dirt and his career is over.

By the way, it's 2 women a week (too many), not 3.

Well done on the rhyming tag line.

Nobody in the documentary excused her.

There's a differenxe though. Justin Lee Collins isn't dead.

Ps, harry styles isn't a child.

Well it was suicide, so your point doesn't really make sense. If the court had sentenced her to death, but let JLC off lighter, then that would be an example of unfair treatment. But that didn't happen.

And yes, Harry Styles was a child when she dated him, unless you think 17 year olds aren't children. I wonder if she got him anything nice for finishing his A-levels.

Impossible to diagnose in retrospect, or from simply watching someone being talked about, but many of her traits before and after fame, her attachment style, relationship history seem to point quite clearly to Borderline Personality Disorder, with histrionic traits too.

It’s so sad that her life ended as it did. The fickleness of fame was entirely unsuitable for someone with such a fragile sense of self, although the adulation was clearly craved. Domestic violence is never ok, no excusing that, but the public vilification would have been hard for even an emotionally stable person to handle, and practically impossible for someone so vulnerable.

@Hont1986

Well it was suicide, so your point doesn't really make sense. If the court had sentenced her to death, but let JLC off lighter, then that would be an example of unfair treatment. But that didn't happen.

And yes, Harry Styles was a child when she dated him, unless you think 17 year olds aren't children. I wonder if she got him anything nice for finishing his A-levels.

Reported.

But also , my point is, you're trying to make our Caroline got off lightly in relation to JLC.

Do you generally consider yourself to be pleasant?

You can report all you like, there's nothing in that post that isn't simply a matter of opinion.

My point is, JLC hasn't had this same public rehabilitation of his image. There are no TV production companies making a documentary about his tortured soul.

You can't count her suicide as her coming off worse, because that was a self-imposed act. It wasn't something that was done to her.

Yes, I do consider myself pleasant. Part of that is holding no truck with abusers, and abuse apologists.

@Hont1986

Totally inappropriate documentary. There is no excuse for domestic abuse, and we should not be producing hagiographies about abusers to explain away their crimes with "oh they were so troubled". And barely anyone has mentioned her dating an actual child.

I don't think she was treated more harshly because she was a woman. I think she was treated the appropriate amount of harshly by the state, but the media (post-suicide) has been absurdly sympathetic. For people saying a man wouldn't have been treated the same way, Justin Lee Collins was a high flying TV presenter before his domestic abuse conviction and now his name is dirt and his career is over.

By the way, it's 2 women a week (too many), not 3.

His career isn’t over, he’s got a radio show. And he’s fairly prolific on Twitter, he’s got loads of celeb pals who regularly retweet him. His name is hardly dirt.

JLC also had a massive string of domestic abuse claims behind him, his was hardly a one-off incident. He also hit his partners cat, and pushed his partner into traffic in front of witnesses. It’s so interesting to me that this is the man you compare to CF, it’s really proved my point.

@Hont1986

You can report all you like, there's nothing in that post that isn't simply a matter of opinion.

My point is, JLC hasn't had this same public rehabilitation of his image. There are no TV production companies making a documentary about his tortured soul.

You can't count her suicide as her coming off worse, because that was a self-imposed act. It wasn't something that was done to her.

Yes, I do consider myself pleasant. Part of that is holding no truck with abusers, and abuse apologists.

Apart from suggesting she abused a child..

Mmmm.

Except she wasn't an abuser.

And I'm not an abuse apologist.

I just don't enjoy gloating over a young woman being dead like you are.

And also, it was done to her. The media were responsible for this.

@Pumperthepumper we may have had our moments but I totally totally agree with that post.

His career isn’t over, he’s got a radio show. And he’s fairly prolific on Twitter, he’s got loads of celeb pals who regularly retweet him. His name is hardly dirt.

Can't find anything about him currently having a radio show. He was fired from one in 2016, which was on the very prestigious and well-known digital-only 'FUBAR Radio'. His Twitter account has 20,000 followers, compared to Flack's account, which still has 1.8 million. He won't be getting mainstream work again, and good riddance.

Apart from suggesting she abused a child

I didn't say she abused one. I said she dated one, which is indisputable. I'm not gloating over anything. I don't think it's good that she died - I want her to have lived, gone through the court case, most likely been given a fine or community sentence, and then she probably would have been back on TV a year or so later. It happened with Ant with his drunk driving, it happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he punched that staff member.

@Hont1986

His career isn’t over, he’s got a radio show. And he’s fairly prolific on Twitter, he’s got loads of celeb pals who regularly retweet him. His name is hardly dirt.

Can't find anything about him currently having a radio show. He was fired from one in 2016, which was on the very prestigious and well-known digital-only 'FUBAR Radio'. His Twitter account has 20,000 followers, compared to Flack's account, which still has 1.8 million. He won't be getting mainstream work again, and good riddance.

Apart from suggesting she abused a child

I didn't say she abused one. I said she dated one, which is indisputable. I'm not gloating over anything. I don't think it's good that she died - I want her to have lived, gone through the court case, most likely been given a fine or community sentence, and then she probably would have been back on TV a year or so later. It happened with Ant with his drunk driving, it happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he punched that staff member.

No, he still does the radio show, and has a podcast. You have no idea if he won’t get mainstream work again, he’s been involved in several projects since his conviction.

He’s really not a good example of how harsh society is on abusive men vs abusive women. CF was scapegoated precisely because she was female.

I've looked it up, he doesn't do the radio show anymore. He hasn't since 2016. There is no current podcast.

I can't find any projects post-conviction other than a quickly-cancelled hosting gig on an online-only football channel, a role in an unknown independent film which IMDb estimates had a £1,000 budget, and like I said, this cancelled radio show. He's done. I don't know why you're pretending otherwise.

@Hont1986

I've looked it up, he doesn't do the radio show anymore. He hasn't since 2016. There is no current podcast.

I can't find any projects post-conviction other than a quickly-cancelled hosting gig on an online-only football channel, a role in an unknown independent film which IMDb estimates had a £1,000 budget, and like I said, this cancelled radio show. He's done. I don't know why you're pretending otherwise.

Actually, you’re right, his LinkedIn page is probably wrong. But he did have a career post-conviction - his conviction was in 2012 and he did plenty of different projects after that.

And he was a serial abuser. He had witnesses to his abuse - Alan Carr being one of them. He’s not a good comparison to CF.

@Hont1986

His career isn’t over, he’s got a radio show. And he’s fairly prolific on Twitter, he’s got loads of celeb pals who regularly retweet him. His name is hardly dirt.

Can't find anything about him currently having a radio show. He was fired from one in 2016, which was on the very prestigious and well-known digital-only 'FUBAR Radio'. His Twitter account has 20,000 followers, compared to Flack's account, which still has 1.8 million. He won't be getting mainstream work again, and good riddance.

Apart from suggesting she abused a child

I didn't say she abused one. I said she dated one, which is indisputable. I'm not gloating over anything. I don't think it's good that she died - I want her to have lived, gone through the court case, most likely been given a fine or community sentence, and then she probably would have been back on TV a year or so later. It happened with Ant with his drunk driving, it happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he punched that staff member.

Mm.

But Caroline stepped down as not to ruin the rep of the show given the previous two suicides.

If you are saying she dated a child, and saying you hope she got him something for his a levels, you are suggesting she abused him

17 is above the legal age of consent. He is not a child in those regards.

As pointed out to you by other PP, JLC is not comparable.

But he did have a career post-conviction - his conviction was in 2012 and he did plenty of different projects after that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. He's had maybe four projects since then and no-one has heard of any of them. And I can't find anything in the past five years. Flack's previous partner also alleged domestic abuse too, this wasn't a one-off.

17 is above the legal age of consent. He is not a child in those regards.

I'm not sure Mumsnet is the right place for you. Maybe you would prefer Reddit. A 31 year old should not be dating a 17 year old.

@Hont1986

But he did have a career post-conviction - his conviction was in 2012 and he did plenty of different projects after that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. He's had maybe four projects since then and no-one has heard of any of them. And I can't find anything in the past five years. Flack's previous partner also alleged domestic abuse too, this wasn't a one-off.

17 is above the legal age of consent. He is not a child in those regards.

I'm not sure Mumsnet is the right place for you. Maybe you would prefer Reddit. A 31 year old should not be dating a 17 year old.

Mm.

In your opinion.

I won't be bullied off to Reddit by you though

Have you read the thread?

Read flacks previous partners statements after her death, or the fact it was him who sold the photos of the bedsheets, so scared of her was he

Flack wasn't convicted or even arrested for abuse against him so that is actually just slander.

You really do believe everything you read.

Of course she wasn't convicted, she killed herself before trial. In the absence of a trial there will be people who think she was abusive and people who think she wasn't.

I don't know how LB selling the photos proves CF wasn't abusive.

@Hont1986

But he did have a career post-conviction - his conviction was in 2012 and he did plenty of different projects after that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. He's had maybe four projects since then and no-one has heard of any of them. And I can't find anything in the past five years. Flack's previous partner also alleged domestic abuse too, this wasn't a one-off.

17 is above the legal age of consent. He is not a child in those regards.

I'm not sure Mumsnet is the right place for you. Maybe you would prefer Reddit. A 31 year old should not be dating a 17 year old.

He had a long history of sustained abuse over years to his partner, in front of witnesses and including to her pet. He also was offered work post-conviction.

We’ll have to agree to disagree if you think that’s in any way comparable to CF.

@NailsNeedDoing

That’s not the same as saying they are treated fairly. I don’t think women are treated fairly in many areas of life, but nor do I think that they are treated more harshly than men when they are violent towards someone else. They might be by the media, but not by pubic opinion. Like I said, there’s a lot of public sympathy out there for CF, you don’t see that for any of the men you listed.

I’m assuming there’s a reason why you won’t pick up on the other points I made though.

I agree with this. There was probably more coverage of CF than if an equivalent male tv presenter was accused of the same thing. But the coverage itself went more down the ‘unstable woman’ angle, like with Gail Porter/Sinead O’Connor/Britney, rather than the ‘violent domestic abuser’ route. I think that is why the public feel sympathy for her - a woman being domestically violent is rarer than a man, so people assume there has to be something like MH issues behind it.

Caroline’s life was of her choosing. She had the resources to change her life at any time. She chose not to, because she was addicted to the lifestyle of being famous. It’s difficult to have full sympathy with someone who makes poor choices and disregards the advice of others.

I do however feel very sorry for her family, who she probably caused relentless stress over many years as they propped her up every time she made another poor decision. It struck me how little her twin cried, I suspect she is just exhausted by the whole thing and worn down by it over many years.

I have seen clips of the programme. Really people with such low self esteem, such as Jesy Nelson probably shouldn't ever go into show business because they are far too vulnerable.

She clearly had many issues, almost bipolar.
Now the media and cancel culture is bad, but people need to take personal responsibility too.

If she had talked about suicide Minh times before, then there was clearly a problem from a long time ago.