To be crying over the Caroline Flack programme?

[Franch2892]

I don't really cry at TV or movies usually but this really hit me.
I finished watching the programme feeling somewhat 'depressed'.
I felt it was very relatable.
I've had times of depression and horrible thoughts and seeing her mum and friends talk about her made me realise how loved most people don't even realise they are.

It just hit me after the documentary how quickly people can be taken away and how we just never see them again.

I don't know, it's just made me really really sad

It's possible for one to feel sympathy for her boyfriend and empathy for her (or the other way around).

I am diagnosed with EUPD. It's a difficult condition to live with, but possible with the right care and supportive environment.

I don't believe that the celebrity lifestyle is conducive to mental well-being in mentally stable people, let alone those with the struggles that CF faced.

Of course her domestically violent behaviour needed to be addressed. And had she not been in the public eye, that's what would have happened.

But an emotionally fragile human being was mercilessly vilified to the point where she considered herself worthless. And we know how that panned out.

In her case, she needed help, not hate.

@FrippEnos

A program that is trying to make a saint out of a sinner.

Not very palatable at all.

Bit harsh but i kind of agree! If the roles were reversed and this was a man who had done the things she did then it would have been a very different reaction.

I agree @raskolnikova that there IS a place for charges to be made in domestic abuse cases without the victims support, for the reasons you have outline.

But I just don’t think this was the case here. The victim, who was not seriously injured (although I realise that mental scars can be just as damaging) was not just unwilling to press charges but spoke out quite forcefully against the charges being brought. There was no evidence (as far as I know) of this being an ongoing domestic abuse situation and crucially the perpetrator was very unwell and vulnerable themselves.

I don’t mean to sound like I am coming down to hard on her side because it sounds like what she did that night was very wrong and must have been traumatic for her ex boyfriend. But I think a caution and some court mandated therapy to deal with her mental health issue would have been more appropriate. I think that’s probably what would have happened in most cases but because she was so high profile, I think they wanted to make an example of her, which was unfair.

@Foldinthecheese

I didn’t think it tried to make a saint of her at all. I thought her friends and family were very frank about her difficulties and challenges. I thought they presented a nuanced view of her: that she was talented, engaging and lit up a room, but that she also catastrophised, couldn’t manage her emotions and relied on others for approval.

I agree. She came across as extremely flawed, vulnerable and a bit of a pain in the neck as a friend. It was extremely sad to watch, she had so much to live for and was clearly very loved. I think when your mind is in that dark a place it can be difficult to see a way out. This was her apparent pattern of behaviour from being young. I’m glad they weren’t still blaming the police or cps for her death. It sounds from what they said the ending was inevitable and was a matter of when not if. Absolutely tragic all round for all involved. The Roman Kemp documentary was very good too.

So many people on here doing exactly what the program did....minimising the domestic abuse! "It was only a small cut on his head, the blood was all hers" oh well that makes it ok then! Wow serious double standards.

Sorry when I say them both being injured, I meant obviously her harming herself, not that he did it, I have just reread what I put and it doesn't read well.

The fact that is was a little cut to his head does make a difference,
she hadn't repeatedly battered him, my understanding is that she threw something in temper that hit him, if she hadn't hit him round the head with a hammer then totally different. I am not saying that it's ok but it isn't the same as a vicious beating. That doesn't mean it doesn't warrant some sort of charge but I think it is unfair to say that any assault is assault, there are clearly differing levels and it would be hugely concerning if the severity didn't come into play at all.

@Francescaisstressed

100 percent agree with the comments about whether this was a man it would be different. Firstly, her ex partners had also accused her of abuse. If a man had committed an assault and the women didn't want to prosecute, would you still be criticising the police? That happens on a lot of DV cases they can't be seen to going more lightly because she's a female celebrity. Would a man have a documentary and made out to be a national treasure?

Whilst I imagine Caroline did have lots of problems, it doesn't excuse her behaviour. The documentary is upsetting but I'm not really sure why it was aired.

It's exactly like the love for Jade Goody when she died, even though the thing she's most known for is being a racists to Shilpa on Big Brother.

The wrong doing is the people leaking pictures and the media circus. But ultimately that media is because of the consumer.

Just like the public were eagle eyed watching her downfall, they know invade her private life after and her death. Horrible.

Harvey Weinstein? Saville? Bill Crosby? The phenomenally widespread victims of #MeToo? Arme Hammer? Chris Brown? Mike Tyson?

How many women had to be believed for any of them to face any kind of justice? Hint: it wasn’t just one accusation. For some of them it was literally hundreds.

May17th
What do you mean by that?

I mean that the program made very much out of her MH issues and how troubled she was whilst barely mentioning her attacking her partner.

I do wish people would understand that in most cases of domestic violence where women are the perpetrators, it's not a simple case of sex-reversal. In most cases, the motivators are nothing to do with power imbalances. There are often hugely different dynamics at play and whilst NONE of that excuses domestic violence, it does mean that how it is dealt with needs to often be considered from a differing viewpoint.

It really is not a one size fits all analogy. Which is why law is complex, mitigation plays a part and each case is heard on its own merits.

Of course she shouldn't have done what she did. It still doesn't justify the press treatment of her which exacerbated a clearly troubled mind.

I also thought BPD.
Tragically sad. So much respect for her mum and sister. They showed extraordinary courage speaking out the way they did.

Such complete and utter bullshit. If women were always believed about abuse and supported, we wouldn’t have three women per week killed at the hands of men. This is an unbelievably crass way to try and make a point.

I should have made it clearer when I said ‘on here’. I meant on here, women are always supported, and it’s a true, brilliant thing. I’m sadly aware that women aren’t taken seriously enough by the wider world outside of MN.

It would be a good thing all round if the world started to recognise that a lot of violence comes from unmanaged mental illness, in both men and women, and stared to do something about it to protect everyone.

I cannot see anyone minimising DV on here at all, it certainly that way on the documentary either, I have seen several people who clearly haven't watched the programme assuming many things about it though. He has very publicly said she did not hit him, I do not understand how anyone on here knows what actually happened other than what has been said by her or him or by the press. If it was DV then she deserved to be prosecuted of course, I don't think anyone has actually said otherwise.

Presumably it would have gone through the court process and she would have been found guilty or not guilty. Both her and her boyfriend would have had the opportunity to give their sides I imagine also.

@NailsNeedDoing

The police also have a bit to answer for, I am not sure what the purpose of charging her with assault when the victim was a dead against it and the perpetrator was clearly going through a mental health crisis themselves at the time was.

This situation is exactly the same as in most DV cases. Except no one would ever question charging a man who was abusive to a woman. Anyone who mentally or physically abuses another should be charged, by the police, whether the victim wants it or not, at least for the sake of protecting others in future, and for the sake of justice.

Couldn't agree more. The CPS have a responsibility to pursue cases such as this even if both parties disagree.

Harvey Weinstein? Saville? Bill Crosby? The phenomenally widespread victims of #MeToo? Arme Hammer? Chris Brown? Mike Tyson

How many people in your workplace, or on your social media would say out loud how sorry and sad they feel for any of those people, and get a chorus of agreement?

@PugInTheHouse I completely disagree! It may have been only a small cut that time but she has been accused by previous partners of doing it. If we want equality in society then it works both ways im afraid.

“The fact that is was a little cut to his head does make a difference,
she hadn't repeatedly battered him, my understanding is that she threw something in temper that hit him, if she hadn't hit him round the head with a hammer then totally different. I am not saying that it's ok but it isn't the same as a vicious beating. That doesn't mean it doesn't warrant some sort of charge but I think it is unfair to say that any assault is assault, there are clearly differing levels and it would be hugely concerning if the severity didn't come into play at all.”

@PugInTheHouse I’ll remember that the next time a woman posts on here about being “a little bit” assaulted by her partner. I’ll remember to remind her that’s it’s not a vicious beating and was only done in temper.
I only hope you don’t have daughters.

The severity of his injuries did come into play when a charging decision was made. That doesn’t for a second mean that only serious assaults count.

I feel sorry for her mum and her friends, but I actually found it a little upsetting that a documentary like this was made in the first place. It would have never, ever been made about man. She seems like a troubled woman, but DV of any sort is really not ok

Agreed @NailsNeedDoing.

@CandyLeBonBon brilliant post.

@siyhack58342

I feel sorry for her mum and her friends, but I actually found it a little upsetting that a documentary like this was made in the first place. It would have never, ever been made about man. She seems like a troubled woman, but DV of any sort is really not ok

Plenty of documentaries have been made about men who have committed atrocities

@NailsNeedDoing

Harvey Weinstein? Saville? Bill Crosby? The phenomenally widespread victims of #MeToo? Arme Hammer? Chris Brown? Mike Tyson

How many people in your workplace, or on your social media would say out loud how sorry and sad they feel for any of those people, and get a chorus of agreement?

Most of them, if each of them only had one woman’s accusation against them. My point was, it took absolutely loads of women coming forward before any of the victims were believed. And that’s before we start on MPs, footballers, police officers, and the endless list of men in the public eye whose victims have to prove themselves before they’re believed.

That’s your double standard.

Fripp- I mean that the program made very much out of her MH issues and how troubled she was whilst barely mentioning her attacking her partner.

I don’t think you watched the same documentary as me.

@Pumperthepumper she was in court for one persons accusation against her but it wasnt the only accusation that had been made against her! At least one previous partner said she was aggressive towards him and he even moved to Australia to escape the relationship.

@Chooseausernamenow you have deliberately twisted what I said, I have never said she should be charged or prosecuted, I just said it should be relevant to the specific assault. You have literally just confirmed what I said in different words in your post so I don't understand why you are picking my post to bits. I AGREE that she should be prosecuted if she it him, I have nowhere said differently. My grievance is with the press (and some people on here) making her out to be something she's not.

The severity of the injuries would have come into play with the charges and any subsequent punishment if it had gone that far, the fact is that the press did not act in the same way about it, the headlines were not the truth at all.

[quote pabloescobarselasticband]@Pumperthepumper she was in court for one persons accusation against her but it wasnt the only accusation that had been made against her! At least one previous partner said she was aggressive towards him and he even moved to Australia to escape the relationship.[/quote]
Then the appropriate and correct thing to have happened would have been for the court case to take place, without the press frenzy casting their votes before it even started.

Just like other people are allowed to do.

She fucked up. She was a mess and she behaved in a way that damaged and hurt other people. She still had the right to a fair trial and she didn't get it.

The legal process should have been allowed to go ahead in the normal way but it didn't, and nobody stopped it because it sold newspapers.