To be crying over the Caroline Flack programme?

[Franch2892]

I don't really cry at TV or movies usually but this really hit me.
I finished watching the programme feeling somewhat 'depressed'.
I felt it was very relatable.
I've had times of depression and horrible thoughts and seeing her mum and friends talk about her made me realise how loved most people don't even realise they are.

It just hit me after the documentary how quickly people can be taken away and how we just never see them again.

I don't know, it's just made me really really sad

@CandyLeBonBon and this is exactly why specific reasons should be taken into account. If you hit him every time you disagreed with something he said this would of course be very different to the situation you have described. You do not make excuses but you have valid reasons which the police agreed with.

If you were famous you can imagine that the situation you were in could have been twisted in an extremely negative way against you. I am not saying CF didn't do anything, but we don't actually know the full story.

@OverTheRubicon according to the press. I am not saying its not true but unless the police have released this information formally then I'm being cautious about what I believe as being 100% factual. There are several articles where Lewis has said she didn't hit him. I probably feel a bit guilty as I just naively read the papers and believed it to be all true at first.

Had tears through out - she was beautiful and hopefully the programme will raise awareness of mental health and vulnerabilities 😢

@BigWolfLittleWolf

I’ve only read the first page and I am absolutely appalled.

The next time I hear about a man beating his female partner about the head I’ll think of this thread and remember that man had probably struggled all his life, poor self esteem, depression etc.
His plight so very relatable.

How utterly sickening.
She was a violent domestic abuser who killed her self when it all came out.
Nothing more.

She clearly had mental health issues, so do a lot of the men that abuse women, but no compassion there.
There is no excuse and I’m disgusted at how her violent behaviour has been excused on account of her being a pretty woman.

You should read the thread, there’s lots of well-considered points you might find interesting.

Not least that her violent behaviour was highly publicised on account of her being a pretty woman.

What I saw was a person who had very poor mental health, whose family knew, and had no support. I felt quite scared when they were talking about her reaction to breakups. Not at all healthy.

I can't understand why she was not given more counseling, guidance, anything before she then went into public eye?

I was sad for her as a person that she felt that way and chose to end her life. I was sad for the family that they had been dealing with it for so long and it was not a surprise.

I think social media is awful, and I hate the misogyny surrounding entertainment. I hadn't followed her career, she never appeared on my radar before her death.

But I felt quite indifferent to the show.

I don't understand why the family was so angry towards the police? Was she really being used as an example? I'm just not sure. I felt a little bit as if the family felt she should have had special treatment for her status, rather than the other way around.
What about the domestic violence?
Did she hit him? Where was he in the documentary?

I obviously don't know much about it all so that is how it came across to me.

@Jellykat

Chicchiclana Tough.. i know what i've done for someone close to me in similar circumstances until they finally got help, and thats how i felt after watching the programme.

Well ... saying "tough" as an argument is flawed, surely you can see that? CF had a loving family and friends, a friend who was even living with her when she chose to end it. Her suicidal thoughts had gone on all her adult life from what her Mum and sister are saying.

All I'm saying is sometimes there is nothing anyone can do when an individual is determined on this path. There's no point in making their loved ones feel guilty for it. That's the absolute opposite of #bekind.

There is no medication, no support, no therapy, nothing, that can prevent suicide in some cases. Can we just agree on this?

I'd never heard of CF before she was all over the media, and then the "Be kind" campaign.

She obviously had some emotional difficulties and some demons to deal with, but I get the impression she could have been a bit of a nightmare.

I have a family member who was killed by someone with MH issues. He was never charged and the person went to a MH facility for a short time. He had done it before and was still released.

It was sympathetic to CF and perhaps tried to provide an after the fact explanation of her abusive behaviour. It's a failure of her management company/ agents to not realise her extreme vulnerability, for example her addiction to social media referenced often, also wondered about influence of substances in the celebrity world. She just seemed so unsuited to this career and how fickle it is and how exposed she was to harsh media coverage and all that goes with it.
It reminded me in of Susan Boyle and her promotion by Simon Cowell despite having a Learning Difficulty. Then she struggled to handle fame.

Borderline personality disorder?

I have been wondering whether she had BPD too.

@Franch2892

I haven't watched it yet!

I will get it on catch-up-on-demand over the weekend.

Thanks for the heads-up. I hope you are OK (and anyone else affected by the show, and what happened to Caroline.)

I just can’t help the feeling that if Caroline had been male, this would be a very different thread.

If a man had dated a series of much younger women including a 17 year old in his mid 30s, and then been arrested for allegedly hitting one of them over the head with a lamp, would we be talking about therapy and troubled souls etc?

I watched the programme last night. It’s clear she was many things: charismatic, fun loving, sociable, ambitious. But also quite selfish, emotionally immature and very desperately needy. The latter of which is very sad of course.

The higher the perks of something in life, the higher the price. Her job and level of fame comes with huge perks: very high salary, travel opportunities, glamorous parties, it’s all about ‘you’. The price is that it is all quite superficial and that the public can make awful comments about you.

Other jobs, for instance, pay well but you have to work incredibly long hours and cope with a high level of stress. Nothing is free.

Caroline chose fame and fortune, and seemed to be quite self centred - I think you have to be to get anywhere in show business which is notoriously fickle and shallow. If I’m being honest I don’t think she showed much care towards her poor mum and twin sister, who seemed to be more like her on-guard therapists than her family - the worrying phone calls, making her mum drive to London at night, turning up for Christmas and leaving the next morning rather than spending time with them.

The younger boyfriend issue is also quite telling - it’s like she could only be with someone younger and more impressionable, that was dazzled by her and immature enough to tolerate her neediness. I have to be honest it was quite stark seeing an incredibly young looking Harry Styles in that video, sat across the table from her. It was a little disturbing if I’m honest. How would you feel if that were your son?

It’s all very sad, but she really seemed to be the author of her own misfortune - there wasn’t anything wrong with her life that she didn’t have the capability to change, and she had so much more opportunity than most.

Heartbreaking all the same, I hope she is at rest now.

It was just an eye opener to watch the programme, as this kind of sadness and tragedy, has happened to lots of so called celebrities,who wanted to be famous, and then could not handle the fame for various reasons.. And then the social media,and newspapers etc, who write the most horrible things about celebrities, when things go wrong for the famous persons.

This would tip a lot of people over the edge, for those with severe mental health problems. I think that the tipping point for Caroline,was the boyfriend issue,and then going to court.

It was all very sad for her,as she seemed a very happy go lucky woman,and would have made a good presenter on another TV programme,a decent one, not Love island crap.

I just can’t help the feeling that if Caroline had been male, this would be a very different thread.

If a man had dated a series of much younger women including a 17 year old in his mid 30s, and then been arrested for allegedly hitting one of them over the head with a lamp, would we be talking about therapy and troubled souls etc?

Johnny Depp? Marilyn Manson? Mel Gibson? Sean Penn? Charlie Sheen?

@Pumperthepumper

I just can’t help the feeling that if Caroline had been male, this would be a very different thread.

If a man had dated a series of much younger women including a 17 year old in his mid 30s, and then been arrested for allegedly hitting one of them over the head with a lamp, would we be talking about therapy and troubled souls etc?

Johnny Depp? Marilyn Manson? Mel Gibson? Sean Penn? Charlie Sheen?

I haven’t seen any posts excusing those men?

Here’s one with plenty of posters pretending Johnny Depp did nothing wrong:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3976090-Johnny-Depp?msgid=98551651

[quote Pumperthepumper]Here’s one with plenty of posters pretending Johnny Depp did nothing wrong:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3976090-Johnny-Depp?msgid=98551651[/quote]
Ah. So because some people excuses Johnny, the same should be applied to Caroline?!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3962491-Amber-Heard-Johnny-Depp-Your-thoughts?msgid=98145957

Ah. So because some people excuses Johnny, the same should be applied to Caroline?!

And now you agree he’s excused?

Caroline Flack was made a scapegoat so people could queue up and pretend that women are ‘just as bad’ and everything should be ‘equal’ and ‘if the roles were reversed’ - misogyny being at the very heart of that agenda.

As I said, I’m not here to defend her - she could well have been guilty of everything the media accused her of, I’ve no idea. But let’s not pretend that she got an easy ride when men get a hard time because it’s absolute bullshit.

Of course there is Chiclana, however at no point in the programme was the suggestion of medication, or professional help ever mentioned.
Was every avenue explored to help her cope? we will never know..
but taking ones own life is not always the end result for many many people suffering from MH issues, so of course i felt perturbed by the slant within the programme that it was always somehow inevitable.

@Pumperthepumper

Ah. So because some people excuses Johnny, the same should be applied to Caroline?!

And now you agree he’s excused?

Caroline Flack was made a scapegoat so people could queue up and pretend that women are ‘just as bad’ and everything should be ‘equal’ and ‘if the roles were reversed’ - misogyny being at the very heart of that agenda.

As I said, I’m not here to defend her - she could well have been guilty of everything the media accused her of, I’ve no idea. But let’s not pretend that she got an easy ride when men get a hard time because it’s absolute bullshit.

No, my point is neither of them are/should be.

I never said men get a hard time etc

You said:

I just can’t help the feeling that if Caroline had been male, this would be a very different thread.

If a man had dated a series of much younger women including a 17 year old in his mid 30s, and then been arrested for allegedly hitting one of them over the head with a lamp, would we be talking about therapy and troubled souls etc?

Implying that people are kinder to her because she’s female. That’s patently untrue. She got a particularly hard time because she was female - and we know that because of the way people treat men who date and then abuse younger women. Such as Depp, Manson et al.

@Pumperthepumper

You said:

I just can’t help the feeling that if Caroline had been male, this would be a very different thread.

If a man had dated a series of much younger women including a 17 year old in his mid 30s, and then been arrested for allegedly hitting one of them over the head with a lamp, would we be talking about therapy and troubled souls etc?

Implying that people are kinder to her because she’s female. That’s patently untrue. She got a particularly hard time because she was female - and we know that because of the way people treat men who date and then abuse younger women. Such as Depp, Manson et al.

I do think people are being kinder to her because she’s female.

Depp’s case was dragged through the papers in very much the same fashion, so was Mel Gibson’s. Manson’s is too early to tell how it will go yet, I’m not aware of any court proceedings.

I only knew about Caroline Flack from Strictly and the media coverage prior to and after her death. It's incredibly sad that a young woman has taken their own life to escape public and private torture. But she was not the first and she won't be the last.

I mistrust the media, social media and the culture of fame: It is like a hall of distorted mirrors. A person's appearance, behaviour, movements are put under a microscope and then blasted across the internet for potentially millions to see and comment on. It's a brutal condensed form of torture and distortion that would send most people in a downward spiral.

I'd like to see funding given to research into the impact of fame and social media particularly from the individual's experience.