To lie to get a contextual offer for DS?

[midnightorchid]

Name changed.

DS (17) is having talks from school about applying for university and I have also been looking into the contextual offers. DS wants to apply for a very competitive course, for which the interviews count for a lot. We are a FSM family as I am a carer for ds2, but live in a naice area as I rent a property from a close friend for half the market rental value. From what I have read due to our postcode DS will not get a contextual flag. Ex DH however lives in an area with the worst POLAR score and this would get a flag.

DS will not perform well at the interview, he narrowly missed the ASD criteria when assessed but he very much presents with ASD traits. He is very literal, doesn't expand answers etc and the questions he is likely to be asked in the interview require detailed, thinking outside the box answers.

WIBU to put DS's address on the UCAS as his df's address? If it wasn't for my friend renting me her house then I would nearly 100% be living in a qualifying postcode. This will not qualify him for a contextual offer (as his course does not offer contextual grades) but according to the university sites they will take into consideration lack of preparation/appropriate responses in the interview. DS could even move in with his DF for a period of time so that technically this is true.

Obviously this is lying (although if he moved in it wouldn't be) so I feel very conflicted, but I'm quite sure without this that DS will do well in the interview, no matter how well he is prepped. I have no doubt he can get the required grades and wouldn't even consider this if it wasn't for his difficulties.

Former Admissions Tutor here: first of all, pretty shocked that you're contemplating lying. What a model for your children. Contextual offers are also about the school to which an applicant goes - not just post code.

But mostly this:

the questions he is likely to be asked in the interview require detailed, thinking outside the box answers

Interviews & selection processes are generally designed to use methods typical of the teaching & learning in the degree programme for which students are applying. So if he's likely to need you to prevaricate/colour the truth about where he lives, in order for him to get an offer, but he can't really cope with the selection processes, how much are you setting him up for potential failure in the degree programme itself?

Think about it.

we don't live in a POLAR 4 area therefore would not qualify for a contextual flag for that. It wasn't intended as a class marker in any way, I rent it.

Do you actually know who contextual offers are for?

They're for children who come from very poor families, families where there hasn't been educational attainment or aspiration because of poverty, and for children in schools which don't have a good record of getting children into HE, because of poverty, and lower educational attainment or aspiration, because of poverty.

Not for parents giving a m-class child a helping hand to get somewhere that they might struggle to achieve on their own ... Sheesh.

Agree with everything SML107 has said.

Get in touch with the admissions team and/or the student wellbeing team and ask how they would support an applicant with autistic traits through the interview process. They'll be able to provide a solution that actually addresses the problem, rather than the workaround you're contemplating. If they don't want to help, then I would suggest that it is not an institution that is well set up to support your DS throughout his time on the course.

On your original question - I actually think that POLAR is an awful measure of disadvantage which includes a lot of students who are actually very privileged (and I work with it daily), so would have no qualms about using the other address. But have you checked your IMD quintile? This is now coming through as an alternative (better) measure for universities so they may flag on this during the current application cycle as well as POLAR.

A couple of other things - universities record and are measured on self-declared disability, and many have targets based on this. So, just as with a job interview, the course/programme interview should allow students to request reasonable adjustments without requiring any kind of 'proof' or diagnosis - I think this is quite different to how schools handle things? And universities don't have access to Free School Meals data (much to their annoyance - they'd love to as it would then be much easier to identify students who should get additional consideration). Also, I wouldn't worry too much about people at the university checking for changes in address. I would be very surprised if this happened routinely at any UK institution! And your DS certainly won't be the only student changing addresses between application and admission.

Finally, I'd recommend that you take a look at the university's access and participation plan www.officeforstudents.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/the-register/search-for-access-and-participation-plans/#/AccessPlans/ as this will set out their main priorities for admitting students, and the ways in which they will support students when they join.

MeltsAway have you missed the bit about us being a FSM family, so we are in receipt of benefits? This means we are in theory living in poverty.

couple of other things - universities record and are measured on self-declared disability
Seriously?

Be careful what you wish for; you might get it.

If he can't swim unaided, he's going to drown as soon as he's out of his depth.

I would without hesitation. Do what’s right for your family.

@MeltsAway

we don't live in a POLAR 4 area therefore would not qualify for a contextual flag for that. It wasn't intended as a class marker in any way, I rent it.

Do you actually know who contextual offers are for?

They're for children who come from very poor families, families where there hasn't been educational attainment or aspiration because of poverty, and for children in schools which don't have a good record of getting children into HE, because of poverty, and lower educational attainment or aspiration, because of poverty.

Not for parents giving a m-class child a helping hand to get somewhere that they might struggle to achieve on their own ... Sheesh.

It's his own father who lives there. He is a child on FSM.

When I think of all the ways that far more privileged families circumvent the system, honestly I can't get worked up about this one. The reality is that contextual offers will very often end up with an 'overlooked lower middle' of children who for various reasons are very disadvantaged but because they live in a non-deprived postcode and haven't been in care, are going to end up considered alongside any ex-Harrovian etc at many unis.

It's his own father who lives there.. But he doesn't. So if there are any actual disadvantages to living there, he hasn't experienced them.

Contextual offers can be from a single marker eg fsm.

I lived in a nice area and we are university educated but dd got a contextual offer due to her school failing ofsted.

The address he uses for university will be what his loan is based on remember, saying he lives with exh might affect what he gets. Plus if it's not the address the school have might be considered fraud

I think try to analyse in your own mind to what his problem relates. Is it confidence? Is it slow working memory and processing questions? ( Common with ASD). Is it taking questions literally? - e.g., do you think Science has saved the UK from Covid? "Yes." - with no expanding.

Think of a suggestion you could make to the college - e.g. a prep sheet of a range of likely questions.

You could have a Weischler test done, or whatever it is called, to get a more precise idea of what constitutes his difficulties. You sound very convinced that he isn't going to interview well. Does he not show emotion or enthusiasm? You don't seem to be saying ' It depends on the questions on the day'. Or 'It depends if he responds positively to the interviewer.' Try to analyse what's convincing you that help is needed.

Wot @SML107 said

TBH everyone lies, and having been through the system the difference a coach can make is massive. Moral high ground be damned we need to do what we need to do.
However your son's issues with interviews mean he's unlikely to get in anyway without help. If he doesn't tell them his full thought process - how are they going to know his capability? The interviewer is going to have to draw him out and he will have to respond.
Add to that the fact that many autistic people are v, good at talking about their special interest(s)... I work with a lot of autistic people and the level of detail they go into is astounding,.. especially when juxtaposed against how uncommunicative they are in other matters.

Try to get either a second assessment/diagnosis and interview coaching.. otherwise it won't be much use. Also in a lot of scientific subjects you may be technically very good but you spent a lot of time explaining your thinking to your colleagues or teaching. If he is not very good at this he will suffer in the course anyway

It sounds like you feel your son is at a disadvantage through his poor interview skills and you feel that grasping any other advantage will counter this.

However, there isn't an association between the problem you've identified and the solution you've found. He wouldn't have ASD traits because of the area he lives in, the interviewers aren't going to put these two things together. If he was less articulate maybe, or less polished, they might think he'd had less advantages and therefore had the same potential to do well.

You need to find a solution that is actually related to his traits, practice or contacting the disability services.

*get in anyway without interview help and only contxtyual

I’d do it. In a flash. I’d drive my kid every advantage I could. Absolutely. And nope I wouldn’t like it if my child lost out because someone else did it. But I’d totally get it.

I agree with @LetsSplashMummy

Please do what's best for your son. The criteria is not fool-proof and doesn't capture everything - for example, it is likely that my DC will get contextual offers based on their school and our postcode, and they are not remotely deprived (very well educated parents who now earn a decent amount, have access to private tutors etc). I would rather someone like your DC got the leg up they need!

It’s him that fills in the form that states his address, not you. It’s his application. No one will cross check the addresses as people move.

There must be a different way for you to "level the playing field" for him if you feel it's genuinely unfair. I do think YABU to put him down as living somewhere he's not for this, but mainly because I think you should be contacting the university admission office/disability office and talking to them. It'll be much more helpful to give a rounded picture of his situation and they're much more likely to be able to actually make accommodations for his specific needs - especially if you can get backup from the school. It sounds like it'll be a bit more than just "not very prepared for the interview". They also may be able to point you in the direction of somewhere that can help with interview prep - for example, I know there are charities that offer free practice interviews to Oxbridge candidates who meet certain criteria.

Also, good interviewers are actually practiced in drawing people out. It might be that they can just be sure to ask "Can you expand on that?" and that can be the prompt your DS needs.

I'd be giving the admissions office a ring before I considered anything else.

Also, you can start to coach him for the interview yourself. There are lots of Oxbridge interview books out there that have practice questions you can ask and guides to how to answer. Whether it's Oxbridge or not, a university interview is a university interview. Speaking his answers out loud, even just to you, will really help. It sounds like that's what he'll struggle most with. You really don't need to know that much about the subject!

A quick Amazon search showed ones like:
The Ultimate Oxbridge Interview Guide (900 questions, etc)
Oxbridge Interview Preparation: A Straightforward, Practical Guide
The Oxbridge Formula

ASD traits give him an unfair disadvantage at interview, so I don't think it's that bad for him to have a slightly unfair advantage with this. It balances out.

If you lie and are found out that could have serious implications for your son. It is not worth the risk.

Are you sure he wouldn't qualify for a contextual offer, the home address isn't the only indicator, school address and FSM are counted also I think it's two out of three markers that get you contextual offers.

Also would he be able to cope with the course if you think he won't make the grade to get an offer?

If the course requires an interview, which he would not do well in, then he shouldn't be on the course.

What are you going to do when he has job interviews?