To lie to get a contextual offer for DS?

[midnightorchid]

Name changed.

DS (17) is having talks from school about applying for university and I have also been looking into the contextual offers. DS wants to apply for a very competitive course, for which the interviews count for a lot. We are a FSM family as I am a carer for ds2, but live in a naice area as I rent a property from a close friend for half the market rental value. From what I have read due to our postcode DS will not get a contextual flag. Ex DH however lives in an area with the worst POLAR score and this would get a flag.

DS will not perform well at the interview, he narrowly missed the ASD criteria when assessed but he very much presents with ASD traits. He is very literal, doesn't expand answers etc and the questions he is likely to be asked in the interview require detailed, thinking outside the box answers.

WIBU to put DS's address on the UCAS as his df's address? If it wasn't for my friend renting me her house then I would nearly 100% be living in a qualifying postcode. This will not qualify him for a contextual offer (as his course does not offer contextual grades) but according to the university sites they will take into consideration lack of preparation/appropriate responses in the interview. DS could even move in with his DF for a period of time so that technically this is true.

Obviously this is lying (although if he moved in it wouldn't be) so I feel very conflicted, but I'm quite sure without this that DS will do well in the interview, no matter how well he is prepped. I have no doubt he can get the required grades and wouldn't even consider this if it wasn't for his difficulties.

To all the people saying “Some pay for better education” as an example of a way to secure an advantage in the education stakes: this is completely distinguishable from what the OP is proposing here because it doesn’t involve being dishonest.

@midnightorchid your DS needs to be the one talking to admissions, not you. It's his university place

But you also need to get practising the interview with him. Interviewing is a learned skill. Think of what some broad questions may be and work out answers like a script. Get him to think about weaving those answers into the questions pretty much whatever the question is.

Get him reading some current up to date topics on the subject and be prepared to talk about those to demonstrate some passion for the subject.

You can talk to the Student Support department at the chosen uni to see how he can flag up his potential difficulties at interview and any consideration.

@littlepattilou And 'we live in a naice area'! Ewwwwww, confused Does anyone actually say this in real life, or is this just a naff, twee word that mumsnetters use?!

I've always assumed it's a mildly self-deprecating way of acknowledging that one may be being a little bit snobby but it's a quick way of communicating one's background - no drug dealers on the corner, no fridges in the front garden, ten-year-olds unlikely to tell you to fuck off, most kids get at least some of their homework done, etc.

Op, I really don't think a contextual offer will give him any leeway in the interview. If he can't answer well enough it will be presumed he's not a good fit for the course.
I'm baffled that you actually think otherwise.

I totally get where you are coming from ,but having stressed the importance of honesty to mine since they were toddlers,i could not encourage them to lie in this way

Meant to add

Any chance of getting the neighbouring grammar to do interview prep? Either as a community action school-twinning project or (if they don't go for that) on a private basis.

@midnightorchid

To add, I wouldn't even tell DS that I was doing this, as I'm normally a very honest person .

Unless the forms have changed dramatically in the last few years shouldn’t he be filling in his own form.

according to the university sites they will take into consideration lack of preparation/appropriate responses in the interview.

Presumably this is because they will infer from his address the likely quality of his school and the level of support such a school is likely to have been able to give with non-essential detail like interview preparation. I think you are trying to stack the deck here, because you admit his school isn't failing and presumably the 'naice' area you say you live in is part of the reason why. You also say both you and his DF are graduates, so he isn't anywhere near as disadvantaged as many kids when it comes to preparation for this.

If you have concerns that he won't interview well, I think you'd be better off helping him practise or talking to his teachers about what they can do to help. I also think that you need to give interviewers a bit of credit for knowing what they're looking for instead of just declaring interviews 'not a fair test' - someone obviously thinks they're the best option available in conjunction with all the other data available. I assume this is medical school we're talking about, and if you think they don't see and accept plenty of students with autistic traits every year, you're mistaken. Medical schools are full of kids like your son as well as the personable alpha types you're probably worried he won't compare well to.

Also, your DS and his school will have more input into the UCAS form than you, so if you think you can do this without telling him or them, you're mad as well as dishonest. Have a bit more faith in your DS and support him in less unethical ways is my advice.

Would he struggle in the course? It’s not just about doing well in interview, it’s coping with the course content.

@SML107

I am posting from the viewpoint of an autistic woman who worked in student services in HE for over ten years.

Your son issues are:
He's autistic although undiagnosed
His communication needs are in the minority
Due to a lack of inclusive practice he's likely to face a selection process that hasn't been designed with his needs in mind
He does not know how to navigate f2f interviews

Changing his address will not help with any of those things. If your son was my child in the first instance we'd be getting in touch with disability services at uni, getting an appointment with a disability advisor, discussing what reasonable adjustments are normally put in place for these interviews and then going from there.

Did you know some uni's will pay for the student to have an assessment if they suspect they are autistic? I worked at one uni who provided this support. At one point they did have a really poor assessor who diagnosed autistic individuals as having socialanxiety, so they were replaced and all of the students were reassessed and received the right diagnosis. The reason I'm highlighting this is some assessors are really poor at their job, therefore, if your son needs this pieceof paper to have his needs met I'd pursuea second assessment. Uni briefs can be hard to decode and he may need a 1:1 academic skills tutor funded through the DSA to be able to thrive in HE.

In relation to interviews, I often find those with the predominantneurotype(PNTs) are rubbish at adapting their communication style to meet the needs of those with a neurominority, hence, communicating effectively with these individualsrequires extra effort from myself. As such, I have the following reasonableadjustment for f2f interviews, which could be put in place for your son:

Questions 30 minutes in advance to give me time to decode ambiguous languageetc and to give me the processing time I need

Rather than act fraudulently I think you should use this opportunity to empower you son to think about what support he actually needs and support him with navigating negotiating this

I couldn’t agree more!

Sounds like you want it every which way, OP.

I don't really feel like the address is the key issue here.

He needs interview practice, and a report from a clinical psychologist to summarise that he presents with ASD traits, yet narrowly fails the criteria, and may require consideration & support for the same kind of issues.

Apart from anything else, his department need to know this if they give him a place.

I think you're being very naive about his ability to do the course. The interview is designed to test if the student will be able to do the course - they won't be asking questions that have nothing to do with it. If you lie and he gets a place, it's likely he will drop out or fail and deprive another student who could have done well.

I would definitely invest in a few interview prep coaching sessions - this is widely offered, and could be a game changer for it. You mention that his school does not offer it, but the local grammar school does. This is one of the baked in injustices to lower income kids in state schools here.

You could actually contact a couple of the local independent schools near you - or the grammar - and ask them out straight if they could offer your son a mock interview.

I know that some independent schools in my city do this if asked, and do interview prep swaps with other schools to have their students practice interviews with strangers in a strange surrounding to help them get over their nerves etc.

I think you're skipping over the bit you can legit help him with, without fudging any rules.

Also research things like this - www.futurelearn.com/courses/interviews

oxfordtutors.com/university-admissions/interviews/

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4956766

Read this - www.uniadmissions.co.uk/oxbridge-interview-coaching/

I couldn’t agree more!

He's not undiagnosed ASD though, he's been assessed and didn't meet the criteria.

There's an argument for a second opinion. But if two medical opinions are that he is not ASD then he can't claim to be.

You mention that his school does not offer it, but the local grammar school does. This is one of the baked in injustices to lower income kids in state schools here

Isn't it ridiculous.

What's the difference between this and lying about your address to get your child into a secondary school? YABU

@SML107 has given a much more sensible way to approach this.

OP, DS who has high functioning autism, applied for Oxbridge and didn't get in. At the time he was so upset and it still hurt for a while but the course he is now on, at a very respected uni, is SO much better suited to him. He copes easily with the work load, he is top of his class, which is a great boost to his confidence, and has been put forward by his tutors for some schemes on offer only to top performing students. I know if he'd scraped into the college he first chose, he'd already been worn out by the work load and feel unable to keep pace with his peers. There's a lot to be said for being a bigger fish in a smaller pond at that age, especially if you are dealing with social and autistic spectrum issues.

Very quickly just to clarify my usage of naice, I was using the long time MN term to point out that we don't live in a POLAR 4 area therefore would not qualify for a contextual flag for that. It wasn't intended as a class marker in any way, I rent it.

I don’t think you should do this for a number of reasons:

1. It’s your son’s education and university place not yours, you’re planning on doing this behind his back which is outrageous imo. If I found out my mum had done this because she thought I couldn’t hack the interview I’d be devastated and very concerned that I could lose a place I would have got anyway if it was found out.

2. He was assessed for autism and doesn’t have it

3. The fact you don’t pay full price for rent is irrelevant, he benefits from living in a nice area.

4. I have a degree in a practical science subject (biomed), the interview will not be set up in a way to test areas that won’t be required for the degree, therefore, if he can’t pass the interview he’s not suitable for the course. Practical science courses (and grad schemes/ jobs) interviews from my experience are very knowledge and logic based. I imagine the questions will be centred largely around his scientific knowledge and ability to problem solve, if he can’t perform well he won’t cope well on the course and when trying to secure jobs post grad, so you trying to get him an advantage won’t help him at all if he doesn’t have the traits they’re looking for.

You say a practical science based course that is straightforward and doesn't require critical thinking, but is very competitive. Is it physiotherapy? Medicine? Sports science?

It might be helpful to tell us more about the course so posters can offer specific advice on getting a place. Lots of MNs will have had kids who applied or applied to the same course themselves. Advice on his application and what to expect in interview could be invaluable.

a report from a clinical psychologist to summarise that he presents with ASD traits, yet narrowly fails the criteria, and may require consideration & support for the same kind of issues.
So, a report that doesn't have autism, then.