To lie to get a contextual offer for DS?

[midnightorchid]

Name changed.

DS (17) is having talks from school about applying for university and I have also been looking into the contextual offers. DS wants to apply for a very competitive course, for which the interviews count for a lot. We are a FSM family as I am a carer for ds2, but live in a naice area as I rent a property from a close friend for half the market rental value. From what I have read due to our postcode DS will not get a contextual flag. Ex DH however lives in an area with the worst POLAR score and this would get a flag.

DS will not perform well at the interview, he narrowly missed the ASD criteria when assessed but he very much presents with ASD traits. He is very literal, doesn't expand answers etc and the questions he is likely to be asked in the interview require detailed, thinking outside the box answers.

WIBU to put DS's address on the UCAS as his df's address? If it wasn't for my friend renting me her house then I would nearly 100% be living in a qualifying postcode. This will not qualify him for a contextual offer (as his course does not offer contextual grades) but according to the university sites they will take into consideration lack of preparation/appropriate responses in the interview. DS could even move in with his DF for a period of time so that technically this is true.

Obviously this is lying (although if he moved in it wouldn't be) so I feel very conflicted, but I'm quite sure without this that DS will do well in the interview, no matter how well he is prepped. I have no doubt he can get the required grades and wouldn't even consider this if it wasn't for his difficulties.

If he lives with his dad even part time, then it is not lying to use his dad's address on the form.

the contextual consideration at interview only makes a tiny difference to the outcome anyway. do make sure he has other backup options in case he doesn't get an offer even with the different address.

Imho, your son will face more interviews throughout his life or critical meetings where, particularly as a graduate, he will be expected to be able to deal with both factual questions and pick up on nuances of emotional intelligence
Can you not take a different approach, a life lesson for him that will serve him into the future? I would arrange a lot of interview coaching. Or get yourself informed and do this with him. Practice, practice and practice.

I have done this with my DS, now 27 and 24, and they still ask for me to listen when prepping for interviews today. I informed myself of interview techniques, used my own experience of targeted selection methods/Stars. I’ve done the same for other young folks of family and friends. Is there someone in your family that has interview experience. Or You can literally do this but need to make the effort yourself.

I agree with others, it is totally the wrong to try to circumnavigate what you anticipate to be his poor performance. This won’t stand him well for his future. It is naive to think any degree will not ask him to think outside the box- this is what a degree does, it promotes original thinking. If he doesn’t get selected through the interview then it’s because he is not a good fit. It could be that you are also underestimating him anyway and he will be accepted if you do some practice

I would also advise you talk to your son about a back up plan - what if he doesn’t get accepted...what work is available in his chosen career without a degree that he could then progress in, what other courses are there that provide a back door route

@DinoRhino

Don't do it - what would happen with funding etc., and when he has to put his non-term time address down for University registration? This impacts voting, benefits, and, some university-offered funding.

All of this. I know someone who (foolishly) lied through her teeth to get what she wanted for her son, including lying about where they live. It backfired spectacularly.

@midnightorchid

YABVU. As a few others have said, what if everyone else did this? Imagine the mass chaos that would ensue! Why do you think you are entitled to do this? Despite what some parents think (including you,) their child is no more precious and important than anyone else's.

And 'we live in a naice area'! Ewwwwww, Does anyone actually say this in real life, or is this just a naff, twee word that mumsnetters use?!

OP, contacting the admissions tutors can be helpful because they will be able to tell you exactly what types of questions they ask at interview. They can tell you exactly what sort of candidate they are looking for and what adjustments can be made if he has ASD traits.
Coming from a different postcode won't help nearly as much as speaking to courses directly and knowing what to expect so he can prepare beforehand.

To add, I wouldn't even tell DS that I was doing this, as I'm normally a very honest person
We all are until we're not

I'm also very surprised that the contextual approach spies to interviews rather than grades. In my experience of competitive degrees, it's always been the opposite.

Not all contextual candidates get a place. They get more flexibiity but they still have to convince they would do good on the course which is what the interview is designed for. They know that not all kids are extroverts who can express themselves well and that's not what they are looking for most. They interviewers are experienced and the process is methodological. Of course it's not fail proof but being contextual is not pass/fail marker in its own.

OP will end up doing this, definitely

If I was definitely going to do this I would have just got on with it and not made a thread. It's something I am considering, but certainly not happy about. It is most definitely not a given, especially after reading some replies here that have given me hope that DS might be eligible for special consideration anyway.

Surely he will get a contextual offer because he is a young carer anyway?

He's not though, I'm the carer. I didn't even see young carer as a criteria anyway, just those who have been in the care system.

Have you looked at TSR OP? There's usually very good information on there re interview processes.

We live in more enlightening times now,
College's and universitys recognise now that some students will have learning difficties such as Dyscalcia(maths one) and Dyslexia etc,

I know someone who is a volunteer for a well know uk nature charity who is in uni, and cause he is dyslexic he gets extra support and learning Lee way such as having extended extra time to do required assignments /a lend of a laptop for the duration of his Course, etc,

You need to enquire what kind of help support for students is there with his learning difficulties then? at his uni,

Also I echo the same/similar Concerns of previous posters if he will really struggle at the interview post then.!

How on earth will he manage to deal with actually studying doing his course then?

I think it might be better to have a re think this particular course and for him to explore find out about courses that are better fit for him then.

Oh, and his reference will be important - ensure he chats to his referee about what could be written.

If he has a sibling who is disabled he will be considered a “young carer” I think and should be given a contextual offer as it massively impacts his life experience.

If your DS's college can attest to his difficulties maybe you can ask for reasonable adjustments? That's what he'd get if he was diagnosed. Also, if he spends a fair bit of time at his dad's anyway and has a room or bed there and keeps some stuff there/ has a key etc.. then it's not lying anyway - the fact that he is registered at yours for administrative reasons doesn't change the fact that he has two home addresses.

Oops I ment better for him to explore find out other different courses instead than this particular kind of course.

Interesting how most if those saying are referring to the risk of being caught as a reason rather than the notion of honesty.

Ironically, one trait they are looking for is integrity and transparency. The fact you wouldn't even tell him that you are being dishonest in his behalf says it all.

@midnightorchid

You can't hide this stuff. Surely he would notice when they usually say AAA but suddenly say BBB for him

The course is so competitive that there is no contextual grade change. They will use the contextual data to assess those who perhaps didn't do as well at the interview only.

Is that actually how contextual offers work?

It's not a lie if your actually move in with your ex. Any parent would do anything for their children. Some pay for better education, for example. There's no shame in doing this OP, imo.

to add - please don't hide this from your son though - decide what you are happy to do about it then talk to him.

Any parent would do anything for their children
Yes, lie, cheat, and bring up their kids to be dishonest and believing that the end justifies the means.

Then we get threads after threads about posters being treated like crap by entitled, selfish cheaters. Mmmm...

Regardless of what rent you pay, you benefit from living in a naice area,; agree with other comments that if your son can't hack the interview, is he up to the course.
Unless you plan to get someone to go and sit his exams for him, because he is unfairly deprived because you lied to get him on the course in the first place?

I don’t agree with this at all. Your son was assessed for ASD and doesn’t have it. Not everyone is good at everything, if he isn’t good enough to get onto the course then he just isn’t. He should do something that he will be good enough at instead. Anyway he might surprise you and be great at the interview, at least give him the opportunity to try without cheating.

@dontdisturbmenow

Any parent would do anything for their children Yes, lie, cheat, and bring up their kids to be dishonest and believing that the end justifies the means.

Then we get threads after threads about posters being treated like crap by entitled, selfish cheaters. Mmmm...

This. ^ In spades.

I was coming on here to say no, it’s cheating, etc. But after reading the OP I actually don’t think it is. He’s entitled to put down his dad’s address as much as his mums. The only reason not to change that officially is becoming of UC. I don’t think it’s fair (not your fault) that the system means your need to claim UC disadvantages what he’s actually entitled to. So I’d do it.

Is that actually how contextual offers work?

From what I understand it is usually a grade or 2 drop, but when checking the universities that ds is considering the majority stated that for this course they do not offer a grade drop and instead make allowances for a poorer performance at interview.

A pp said about him being a young carer - AFAIK it doesn't even ask this on the UCAS form. Is this something I should also ask admissions about?

A pp asked why I feel entitled to do this. I really don't, otherwise I'd do it with no qualms. The only reason I'm considering this is that as a family we have had a really hard time due to very unfortunate circumstances and this has impacted on the dc's lives, which I feel very guilty about. I fully appreciate that lots of people also are in the same boat.

Thank you all again, lots of food for thought. It seems like my gut reaction is right and this is a very wrong thing to do. I'm going out on a school run now so will be around later to read any other replies.

Would it not be simpler to have the college reference mention the ASD traits? All university interviewers will know what that means. I’d be very cautious about assuming any science degree doesn’t require “thinking outside the box”. All will involve investigation, experimentation and synthesis of hypotheses based on data. Engineering is often promoted as suitable for introvert, linear thinkers when actually it emphasises group work, problem solving and communication, for example.

WIBU to put DS's address on the UCAS as his df's address?

From what I have seen of the UCAS form the pupil is responsible for the application form

So it wouldn't be OP putting the address on the form, it would be her son. The question isn't whether OP should lie, it's whether she should encourage her son to lie. And whether he should do it. If his intended career requires a high standard of personal and professional ethics, for example, this would not be a good start - regardless of whether the lie is found out.