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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
VintageStitchers · 18/03/2021 12:54

I think your neighbour needs to change her degree course. If normal family noise causes her so much angst, she'll never cope with the pressures of life as a Junior Doctor. She probably grew up in a big detached house and isn't used to normal city living.

Tell her you're sorry that she's struggling and has she tried wearing noise cancelling headphones when she's working?

Redburnett · 18/03/2021 12:54

I think your neighbour is probably a bit oversensitive to noise. Having said that I do not think your DD should be launching herself at the sofa or climbing doorframes and dropping down - best to do that sort of activity outside. Telling your DD that your neighbour is disturbed by noise is fine, it alerts her to the fact that her own behaviour impacts on others and may encourage her to avoid loud noisy playing.
I would suggest to your neighbour that she buys earplugs for sleeping and studying, offer to avoid shouting and loud noisy play but also point out that if the house is not soundproof she will hear some normal family noise.

Mylovelyhorsee · 18/03/2021 12:54

Your neighbour is being massively unreasonable. You’re making normal noise. She can move if she’s unhappy with her living situation.

GoWalkabout · 18/03/2021 12:55

Let your daughter see you navigate life's problems, don't overprotect. Be authoritative. I would say 'I am really sorry that you have been struggling with noise. Here's what we will do. In respect to you I will commit to not routinely shouting up the stairs, though it might happen sometimes. My daughter is also not going to jump around early or late. Again, the odd thud might still happen. I am willing to do this for you even though what you are bothered by is normal family noise. If you should have any future concerns please can you contact the council to discuss and if they consider me to be being unreasonable then I will certainly be prepared to listen. However I don't believe that I am. Good luck with your placements. '

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:56

Again, thanks for all the great responses. Definitely feeling more grounded and sure about what I'm doing and what my response will be tomorrow. Thanks particularly for suggestions that I do not allow my own catastrophising to disturb my daughter.

Feeling so much better!

I do have an inkling that the noise coming from our house might have become an intense, maybe slightly unhealthy focus for the NDN. The fact that she wrote a letter in Christmas and decided not to send it (but then sent it to me two months late yesterday), suggests that this has become a huge issue in her life which she has been fixated on, and something that has been causing her huge amounts of stress and agitation. I'm sure it's also the fact that the walls are thin, of course, and other people's noise can be irritating.

Right, I'll stop over-analysing now!

Thanks all.

OP posts:
Truthlikeness · 18/03/2021 12:57

I had a colleague who bought to a flat - her first time away from home (which was a house). Turns out she was extremely sensitive to what was just normal flat noise. It made her life a misery and they ended up selling the flat after a year and buying a house where they are much happier. But that was her sensitivity and she had to be the one to solve it. You cannot stop other people making normal amounts of day to day noise.

Blockedoff · 18/03/2021 12:57

Stand your ground and live a normal life!

SingToTheSky · 18/03/2021 12:57

Poor woman sounds stressed to the eyeballs but I agree with most people here that it’s not your fault. To me shouting up the stairs for dinner or whatever is not unreasonable, but if you reduce that it would be kind. It really sounds like normal family noise and that it could be an awful lot worse and still be considered normal (siblings playing, arguing etc).

And obviously the jumping off the door frame - could you fit in more playground/tree climbing trips? I don’t think you should feel bad about telling her, there’s nothing wrong with knowing how to consider others when making noise and the difference between indoor/outdoor activities, as long as she also understands she hasn’t been a bad person for having fun. She sounds brilliant with the abseiling, is there a climbing club near you? :o

ContessaDiPulpo · 18/03/2021 12:58

She is being unreasonable OP.

My DS2 climbs the doorframe and leaps about too, esp when tired/overstimulated. He is 9 but has been like this for years. DS1 doesn't do it! I suspect it is sensory seeking behaviour with my DS2 (currently awaiting autism assessment) but he also manages to not do it at school, so it's a bit of can't help it and a bit of it's fun...

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:59

Also, to those who have asked if I ever hear anything from her from her end, yes I've at times heard music and some shuffling about. She said in her letter she only plays music to drown our noise out, and that she's generally a very quiet person.

OP posts:
noirchatsdeux · 18/03/2021 12:59

@Redglitter It amazes me the number of people who live in a flat & don't seem to realise that you're going to have elements of noise from other people

Yep. I had it at my last flat, from the downstairs neighbour. I've been living in rented accommodation for over 30 years, all sorts of different types...studio flats, bedsits, houses etc and it was the first time ever that I'd had anyone complain about noise.

Turned out he'd driven out at least 4 of the previous occupants of my flat (HA) with his behaviour. And I'm not talking about letters through doors, I'm talking about shouting threats, throwing objects at my windows, even urinating outside my front door. It ended with me having to take him to court with the assistance of the HA - in fact they jumped at the chance. I got a restraining and good behaviour order, both which had the power of arrest attached. He wasn't even permitted to speak to me. Didn't stop him from making my last 3 months in the flat hell though. He still urinated on the communal steps, used to go around banging all his doors at 3am in the morning, and shouting nonsense all hours of the day and night. Thankfully my GP helped me get the HA to move me on health grounds, but by the time I moved I was an absolute wreck. I'm bipolar and my mental health severely deteriorated. That was 18 months ago and I'm only now really able to relax in my new place...

@SheikahSlate You need to nip this crap in the bud right now. Tell her that you and your daughter will do your best, but the noise you are making is classed as normal household noise and there's nothing she can do about that. She can't expect to live in a flat in complete silence. She needs to move her bedroom away from the shared wall, and if she can't do that, she needs to find somewhere more suitable to live.

Weirdfan · 18/03/2021 12:59

The 4 page essay is telling me she's batshit and you need to make it clear you won't be entertaining it from the outset OP or she will make your life a misery. My DM lives next door to someone similar, they complain about the most ridiculous things (leaves in their garden which could have come from a multitude of surrounding trees but are 'obviously' from DM's tree, DM's dog barking two single woofs in response to NDN's dog barking for the last 20 minutes etc etc) and I've had to repeatedly persuade DM to just go about her life and don't pander to it because she genuinely isn't doing anything wrong or unusual.

I would be very clear with your neighbour OP, what she describes is normal living noise and she can't expect others to adjust their lives to suit her. Point out that everything she describes put together wouldn't come anywhere close to meeting the threshold for 'nuisance noise' and make it very clear that this is her problem to solve (soundproofing her own flat, noise cancelling headphones etc) and that expecting you and DD to live in total silence is unrealistic and unreasonable. Sympathise by all means but don't apologise, you've done nothing wrong and you don't want to give her the impression you're going to make any of this your problem, it simply isn't,

littleredberries · 18/03/2021 12:59

This is just me, my way of doing things, not saying you should...

But I would reply with a note saying "education is important to everyone. Not just you. Heads up - my daughter is starting percussion lessons."

Then I would get out all the pots and pans and have a banging session. And the light relief from that would probably solve your daughter's anxiety as well! 😂

But that's just me.

FortunesFave · 18/03/2021 12:59

Do NOT stop your DD playing! Not unless it's at gone 10 at night. Which it isn't.

Children have a right to play normally during normal hours.

The woman sounds nuts. I would not have met her. FOUR sides of paper? She sounds unhinged.

Now you've arranged it I suggest you keep it short and suggest she gets earplugs.

Don't be drawn.

SooMoony · 18/03/2021 13:00

I would suggest she gets herself a pair of noise cancelling headphones if the very ordinary family sounds from your house are causing her so much angst. Or she could buy some soundproofing wallpaper.

Don't get upset by it, it's her problem, not yours.

BeeDavis · 18/03/2021 13:00

@ScottishStottie

Its not a bad thing to teach your daughter to be considerate of others, but you need to frame it within reasonable behaviour. So yes chatting at normal level is fine, but jumping off doorframes (??) Is not ok behaviour. I would also avoid shouting up and down the stairs to eachother, but thats a pet hate of mine anyway so may be biased.
I agree with this, we have 2 families either side of us, one attached, one not, and their noise levels are unbearable sometimes. The neighbors attached seem to think it’s ok for the kids to bang on the walls at the same time everyday (I assume bedtime for them). I think some parents are genuinely oblivious to the noise their kids make.
moanieleminx · 18/03/2021 13:02

You have the right to live your own life. Being a considerate neighbour does not mean that you should live to please your neighbour or tiptoe around.

Reducing shouting is a good idea. Equally she can play music or wear headphones.

I live in an apartment, with my 4DC. My neighbours are all elderly and retired. We are early risers, so we try to be quiet before school. They are all in bed by 8 (older DC read). We live in harmony and have for the last ten years. It can be done but requires understanding from all sides.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 18/03/2021 13:02

Wait, she initially came over and appeared to be, 'perplexed,' that it was an office, but then then the OP mentions that previously there had been a divorced man who was not home a lot? Hmm

Sounds to me as if the neighbour is a bit OTT about noise.

My DH does quite a bit of nights, and there isn't much that can be done during the day, but our next door neighbour will give as much notice as possible is they are planning to drill or make a lot of noise during building works.

I wouldn't send flowers or chocolates either, but it may be an idea to contact the housing department at your local Council to see if they would be willing to do mediation.

Otherwise, Sonos do some brilliant ear plugs

Cattitudes · 18/03/2021 13:03

@SheikahSlate

Wow, thank you everyone for these really supportive and reassuring responses. There's been so many already, so I'm sorry that I'm not responding individually.

What I'm gathering is that we're not doing anything wrong, but that there wouldn't be any harm in reducing the room-to-room shouting in the early evening, and that it would certainly be a good idea to dissuade my daughter from climbing the door frame. A couple of people have mentioned how weird this is. She loves climbing (she even abseils - complete with rope and harness - down the trees in my parents' garden. She's my dad's protege in this respect). She occasionally shimmies herself up to the top of a door frame - one foot on either side of the frame kind of thing - and leaps off. This will be a no-no going forward, and probably should have been before now, tbh, I admit.

Honestly, thanks again everyone.

A particular mention to @bumpertobumper - your advice really hit home.

When they reopen could you look into a climbing wall, they often run children's clubs, also maybe a slack line for the garden and maybe an indoor doorway gym that she could have in her bedroom door (upstairs away from neighbour). Obviously not all at once but maybe for birthdays etc. maybe from your dad. Some children relax by hanging around. If she has something like that she might not need to climb doors as much.

You are not doing anything wrong but a few changes in a fun way might make it a bit quieter. There will be far noisier families out there.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 18/03/2021 13:03

The fact that your neighbour has written (and delivered) a 4 page letter makes clear that she is not behaving normally. Probably she is stuck at home too much, stressed and anxious, and your perfectly normal noise has become a focus for her negative feelings.

I would be pleasant but not apologetic, and make clear that noise levels have been reasonable and will continue to be so. I would also suggest that that if earplugs and moving her desk don't help, then she may be better off living in a different type of unit. If she starts talking about calling the council, agree that this is a good idea, as they will be able to clarify for her that there is no excessive noise.

As for your daughter, I would not encourage her to ruminate about this. Just tell her the neighbour is stressed and getting bothered about nothing.

LittleGwyneth · 18/03/2021 13:03

Realistically you can't be a dick about noise unless it's before about 8AM or after about 10PM and even then you're on thin ice if you expect your home to be silent but you life in a flat/semi/terraced house. It sounds like you're trying to be nice about it, but I think sadly she's going to have to have a bit of a reality check.

Cattitudes · 18/03/2021 13:06

Oh and I wouldn't necessarily tell her about the changes as if she thinks you are easy to influence she might push harder.

flobberdobberrr · 18/03/2021 13:08

You're not making noise late at night. You don't need to apologise. Or change your habits

victoriaspongecake · 18/03/2021 13:09

Yabvu. Launching off a sofa and climbing on door frames are not acceptable.

oil0W0lio · 18/03/2021 13:09

A 4 page essay does sound like a red flag😳
But perhaps the real problem is inadequate/not fit for purpose sound insulation?