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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
ViciousJackdaw · 18/03/2021 13:30

The home parkour is probably the main problem and you could tell DD that if she gives it a miss from now on, it will cut down on lots of noise. I'm sure she's a fab climber but she'll end up having a nasty accident before long.

Acovic · 18/03/2021 13:31

I'm the director o a block of flats.

When we get complaints like this I advise the injured party to contact the council noise team. They have the ability to issue noise recording devices and managed expectation. Family noise is normal, to be expected and has to be tolerated.

If every flat in the block is complaining (the bloke with the drum kit!!) I will be a bit more pro-active.

KihoBebiluPute · 18/03/2021 13:31

As PP have said - normal family noise during reasonable hours is to be expected as part of living in a community. People who don't want to ever detect evidence of other human beings need to move to a detatched house surrounded by its own land somewhere remote. You are not being unreasonable. She is being weird and neurotic to expect to never hear a peep from her neighbours. I live in a semi next to a family with DC of similar age to my own. Of course I hear them sometimes. I am sure they hear us sometimes. It would never occur to me to complain because it would never occur to me that I should expect to never hear them.

If your activities are within the boundaries of normal family noise at reasonable times (which seems to be the case from your description) then if she complains to the council they will just detect that you aren't doing anything wrong, and nothing will happen. If she keeps complaining you can tell her that you will complain about her harrassment if she doesn't stop, because you have every right to go about your normal daily life without being terrified of making a noise.

SycamoreGap · 18/03/2021 13:33

My middle child loves to climb the door frames and has does since he was quite small - but we are detached so not impacting on the neighbours.

But having said that it doesn't sound like your noise is excessive and your neighbour needs to learn how to live alongside others and their normal levels of household noise.

Ohnomoreno · 18/03/2021 13:33

Your neighbour seems to be seeking the victim mantle to cloak herself in righteousness. Tell her politely to foxtrot Oscar.

longestlurkerever · 18/03/2021 13:36

OP I sympathise, I had a neighbour like that and it's miserable - you feel stalked in your own home. Tolerance is an underrated virtue. I would not be too contrite - there is legal case law that said you can't turn people living a normal life into a nuisance because the walls are thin.

Nanny0gg · 18/03/2021 13:36

@thecatandthevicar

climb to the top of the door frame and drop down often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!

you do sound a bit of a pain frankly.

OFGS!

It's perfectly normal to call out to someone in another room.

Or do you really go upstairs and talk face-to-face every meal time?

onlythewildones · 18/03/2021 13:40

Yes this all sounds so strange. Is she really a medical student? Her bedtime makes zero sense. She seems extremely ill equipped for the career. The fact she thought it was an office makes zero sense unless she's lived there for less than a year and so presumed everyone was WFH.

Personally I don't think you should stop DD climbing/jumping. It doesn't sound excessive at all.

WishingHopingThinkingPraying · 18/03/2021 13:40

Your dd will be modelling your reaction and anxiety over this so make it clear that you're doing nothing wrong and while neighbour has your sympathy, you won't be changing your perfectly normal behaviour.

ThrowingAShellstrop · 18/03/2021 13:40

No. A 4 page letter is a completely irrational response. You can’t do anything about the walls of a house in a rented property, or your everyday living noise.

She however, has plenty of options. Earplugs, headphones, rearrange furniture or frankly, finding somewhere else to live. If I were you, I’d be ignoring the letter, not adjusting my behaviour but stay pleasant and brief when you see her.

Don’t worry about your DD. She’ll have forgotten tomorrow most probably.

FuckingFabulous · 18/03/2021 13:41

Give your neighbour some earplugs

thecatandthevicar · 18/03/2021 13:42

No, I don't shout across the house Confused and I tell off my kids if they do.

I especially wouldn't if I was living in a flat or a semi.

It's called teaching them manners. Something that some people are lacking unfortunatley.

Stratfordplace · 18/03/2021 13:42

Do you have carpets or floorboards, wooden flooring. Wooden floors can amplify sound.

I would suggest your neighbour moves her desk to the other wall and not your party wall.

Failing this, don’t engage with her. You don’t have to creep about in your own home.

Crosstrainer · 18/03/2021 13:42

I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

This is your answer. Just because she thinks you are unreasonable does not mean that you are: to my mind, the four page letters and the 6pm bedtimes suggest she is someone outside the bounds of what most people consider to be “normal”. Unless you live in a large, detached house, you are likely to be aware of your neighbours. Obviously, then, consideration is key from both sides. Doing a Zumba class in your living room at 11pm? Unreasonable. Playing rock music at midnight? Unreasonable. Letting your child practise the piano at 6am? Unreasonable. But talking, playing, shouting “Dinner’s ready”? Normal family noise.

I had problems with neighbours (parties until 3am every Saturday) and called the council. Don’t know if it’s still the same, but the noise had to be above a certain measurable level, from a living room before 11pm and from a bedroom from 11pm-6 am. Sounds like you’re well within those bounds.

Not wrong to tell your DD, though. It doesn’t hurt for children to realise that their noise carries and may upset others. And absolutely - encourage her to be considerate (leaping from door frames stopped, for example). But - ultimately - you aren’t in the wrong here. If she persists, tell her to call the council herself.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 18/03/2021 13:42

Her long rambling letter is very strange, it sounds like she's got more issues than your 'noise'.

Is she sure the noise is coming from your home? Shouting 'dinners ready' isn't what I'd call annoying shouting behaviour.

You are a quiet house so I'd tell her to check where the noise is actually coming from. You know you're not shouting and yelling at each other so I think she's got the wrong house!

She's being ridiculous. Don't let her intimidate you! Tell her clearly and calmly you can't do anything differently. You can't hear her so how does she what you?

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 18/03/2021 13:43

*hear you

whatnow41 · 18/03/2021 13:45

Not RTFT so apologies if this has been said already. I used to live in rented and I could here my NDN getting a text message, the walls were that thin. I then had antisocial neighbour issues the other side, so competed a noise study for the local council.

They ordered my landlord and the owner of both properties either side of me to add cavity wall insulation and other bits to reduce the sound coming through.

I'd speak to NDN about a joint effort to get both landlords involved in sorting the noise issue, as normal everyday living shouldn't be carrying through the walls like that.

Yorkshirehillbilly · 18/03/2021 13:45

The only other suggestion is to test if you can hear her moving around / talking. If so then you should both contact your landlords about inadequate sound proofing as it’s for them to fix. If you can’t hear her then she’s just over sensitive. But you sound like a quiet family so make it clear you can’t change what you are doing as it’s normal family life and she should take it up with her landlord

RealisticSketch · 18/03/2021 13:46

Just remember op not to utter the word sorry. Listen to her, let her feel really heard, be charming so she feels less threatened. Sympathise with modern standards of construction with regards sound proofing. Remind her sympathetically that a single man hardly at home is going to contrast with a small family in a lockdown... But there are also many worse alternatives.
Reassure her you intend to be as considerate as possible but ultimately what she really needs... Which is silence during social hours is beyond your control and there may be more constructive things she could do if her lifestyle and sensibilities are clashing with the (very normal) audio environment of her accommodation, like sound proofing, headphones, move.

willibald · 18/03/2021 13:47

Fuck her off. I'd totally ignore her. Face-to-face, no. She's batshit. When you live in flats and terraces, there's going to be people noise. I'd keep her batshit letter, though. She gives you any more trouble, find out who her landlord is and send him/her a copy.

maddy68 · 18/03/2021 13:47

Just say while you sympathise you are just doing normal things it's the design of the house which is at fault and obviously not sound proofed adequately. However you may be making more noise than you think so say you'll be mindful of not making additional noise than normal. And ask her in for a glass of wine. She may be struggling

RealisticSketch · 18/03/2021 13:48

Fwiw your daughter's physical fun signs like a great outlet during these times where children are so so constrained and limited in many ways. This would be no issue if developers paid more attention to sound proofing instead of building on the cheap and causing problems.

problembottom · 18/03/2021 13:48

Have to say I don't agree with any suggestions to pander to this woman. She sounds fixated, extreme and very unreasonable - I very much doubt you'll be able to pacify her.

The next time she complains I'd tell her it's best she goes through the council who will decide if your noise is excessive. No more direct contact. Then live your life.

KatharinaRosalie · 18/03/2021 13:48

That's normal living noise, nothing excessive. She really can't expect you all to be dead silent and creep around in your own home just because she wants to go to bed at 6PM. If she needs perfect silence then she needs to find a detached house somewhere in the middle of the woods. Send her a packet of earplugs and don't worry about it.

LST · 18/03/2021 13:49

@thecatandthevicar

No, I don't shout across the house Confused and I tell off my kids if they do.

I especially wouldn't if I was living in a flat or a semi.

It's called teaching them manners. Something that some people are lacking unfortunatley.

I'm disabled. I'll be fucked before I have to haul myself upstairs I need my dc.
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