Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

[SheikahSlate]

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

Tell her she's lucky you don't have 2 kids fighting all the time. I feel bad for my neighbours but I hear their kids too.

That sounds like my current flat. It’s part of a (badly) converted house & when the neighbours are by the party wall it’s as if they’re in the same room. I can hear every word (& sometimes have to resist the temptation to join in their conversations).

I haven’t said anything because it is just normal family noise & not their fault. But it’s one of the things I’m most looking forward to getting away from when I move shortly.

@Shoxfordian

It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything too noisy although maybe discourage the climbing up the doors from your dd.

Agree with this!

I do sympathise with your neighbour however you are not one bit in the wrong.
If your account of your household noise is faithful, then it is nothing more than ordinary family noise and is in no way excessive.

I have to wonder if noise from the flats is somehow travelling through the walls to her? Sound can carry in strange ways, so that might be worth investigating.
But again, I expect that would just be the people in their flats living normal lives.

Your neighbour is being unreasonable. She needs to get some ear defenders if she's that bothered.

You and your DD sound lovely. Just tell your DD it's fine, it's perfectly OK to talk normally, the neighbour was just feeling a bit over tired.

I would be tempted to be family noisy for a day, so the neighbour can appreciate what it's like when you don't practice your violin/play musical bumps or any other normal living activity.

Could the noise that's disturbing her be coming from one or more f the adjoining flats rather than from your house?

Tell her to buy noise-cancelling headphones and crack on.

Talking to her might help you identify what noises are causing the problem. It might be really specific things that don't require much changing of lifestyle, its easy to assume its going to mean living in silence constantly.

My house carries noise awfully, but after a conversation with neighbours its really helped make things more livable. For example its not the general talking noises that are an issue, there some specific toys for example (that cause floor rumbling noises), dining room chairs being scrapped and a certain activity that they do that creates a really bothersome noise. Its helped us move those activities to other times/bits of the house, I had no idea how noisy my chairs were being scrapped on the other side so we are now more considerate so when one is accidentallyscrapped its not the 6th time of the day. Another one for us is that our plug sockets are really noisy (in the bedrooms it literally sounds like someone is plugging something In behind your head) and conversations in the bathroom are incredibly loud.

Well I suppose there is no where else to sleep or study during lockdown. I feel non is blowing it up out of proportion. Environmental health can monitor noise levels yet side if she feels it's too much. Whatever they decide, is final, pretty much. It's a shame she cant chat to you rather than writing worrying letters. Children are children, and what if someone had a barking dog. If ndn cannot cope she will have to move . Where ever we live there always one complainer, about the most trivial things. It doesnt sound as if you are doing anything deliberately to annoy here, nor your child

Before you talk to her remember you HAVE to believe that she is being unreasonable! You and your DD are living your normal lives. That she has an unsual routine is her issue.

Silence for work? Headphones.

Go to bed early evening - earplugs. The adjustments are hers to make.

Imagine yourself as a really noisy neighbour, loud blaring music, television on full blast till 3 am, dogs ever barking and on and on. She isn't dealing with that, but she is reactrign as though she is.

If she makes a formal complaint the council will go through various steps and, given your information, decide she is being unreasonable.

Was the previous aoccupant of you house ever in?

Remember, don't sy you are sorry, that woll only confirm to her that you are in the wrong. Just point out that you are living a normal life, are not being unusually noisy and that thin walls are the bane of modern life.

I think reasonable sounds are to be expected when you are attached to another house. And it certainly doesn’t sound like anything you and your daughter are doing is unreasonable.
Therefore, when you meet with your neighbour I think you’re going to have to show some empathy for her studies / placement, but don’t apologise as you haven’t actually done anything wrong.

or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down,

Is this a thing? 🤨

If she can't accept normal volumes of noise then she should move to a detached property in the country or get earplugs. I understand how miserable it must be if you have a noisy neighbour but you're not. The fact she came down when your mum visited and asked if it was an office is strange behaviour in itself. She sounds quite highly strung, maybe due to pressures in her life but I can imagine that any attempts to reduce your normal noose levels wouldn't help anyway. If you stop calling up to your daughter and walk up the stairs, she will complain about this instead etc.

The shouting and thuds you might be able to address but it does sound as if she needs to take some action herself in terms of ear plugs, white noise etc.

This will sound very lazy, but I do WhatsApp the family when food is ready, they can be fairly spread out around the place and the last thing I want to do is run around gathering people when serving up. Your dd is a bit young for a phone but maybe an Alexa or walkie talkies might be fun for her but mean you are not shouting.

I imagine it is very tough for her, but unfortunately it's mostly tough shit I'm afraid. Thin walls and a young family are rarely a good mix in terms of noise, of course that doesn't mean you and your daughter may want to be a bit more considerate after 6pm (no shouting up the stairs for example). Shift work is awful, especially medical shifts, but you are allowed to use your home without worry until late evening.

Our neighbours have an awful habit of slamming their front door to the point ours all rattle, but it's a heavy old thing that needs to be pulled tight, what can you do? I just often hope they don't do it just as my kids are drifting off. My husband is a fucking elephant on the stairs at times, and I've told him to cut that out unless we're in a real rush, certainly not early or late evening. It's about compromise.

Sounds like she could have it much worse in all honesty. Our previous neighbours seemed to start their day at 11pm (none of them worked), music went on, loud chatting, arguments with teenagers at 2am. That was a real nightmare....

or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down

Of course this is a thing, me and DB used to do this when we were kids. Also getting on top of the wardrobe and jumping off, and trying to swing from the lightshade like Tarzan! Cue some minor injuries

I would offer to ask her to let me know of important.exam dates and keep quiet on those evenings. I would also suggest sound proofing to her, or earbuds which block out external noise.

Do not apologise. You can say something like 'it's unfortunate you feel that way' instead. If you apologise you are accepting that the noise is too loud.

Do not tell her that you will try to keep the noise down. Short of tiptoeing around your house and whispering, there doesn't seem much you can do (apart from stopping dd from jumping off furniture or climbing the door frame, both of which are unnecessary and possibly a danger to your dd).

She will just have to accept that you are living there, that there will be a level of noise and that she cannot change that, unless she moves out.

Do you ever hear anything from her apartment? Is she sure all the noise is from your house and not from an upstairs neighbour in her apartment complex.

Ibjibou

You're not being unreasonable. I'd much rather live next to you by the sounds of it than my neighbours who seem incapable of talking to each other without shrieking and whose kids seem to spend hours stamping up and down the stairs. However, we just suck it up as one of the perils of living in an attached house.

Normal sounds living in a flat. She is completely being unreasonable, sorry. She should wear earplugs at night and headphones in the day if it's really that bad.

My aunt struggles with depression and she complains about noises from neighbours and then when we are 'witnessing it' it is literally nothing... someone walking upstairs once an hour, or some kids playing in a paddling pool in the garden. To her, these are unbearable and she thinks these people are trying to upset her. She won't accept it's normal sounds from living close to other people.

As long as you aren't blaring music/tv late at night/into the early hours I think she is being ridiculous.

Your approach is absolutely spot on. You are a small family, quiet by most I'd imagine, and once your daughter is in bed probably really quiet anyway! So, your neighbour is being unreasonable, not you. You might want to quietly point out the by family standards you are relatively quiet due to being a single parent family with a young child who is in bed early.

As for her going to bed early, entirely not relevant to you; she should move her bed and/ or wear ear plugs!

It sounds like you abs your daughter make a normal amount of noise. Poor construction or the neighbour’s early bedtime are not your problem. Frankly, I wouldn’t engage any further. I certainly wouldn’t apologise or make any promises.

Secondly, I think you’re being a bit daft about telling your daughter. She’s six. She’ll cope. Just live normally and crack on. If the neighbour wants to make a complaint to environmental health she’ll be hard pushed to gather any evidence if it’s just normal family noise. Also, you don’t want to be in a position whereby you’re promising to live ridiculously quietly for the benefit of someone you don’t know.

Wow, thank you everyone for these really supportive and reassuring responses. There's been so many already, so I'm sorry that I'm not responding individually.

What I'm gathering is that we're not doing anything wrong, but that there wouldn't be any harm in reducing the room-to-room shouting in the early evening, and that it would certainly be a good idea to dissuade my daughter from climbing the door frame. A couple of people have mentioned how weird this is. She loves climbing (she even abseils - complete with rope and harness - down the trees in my parents' garden. She's my dad's protege in this respect). She occasionally shimmies herself up to the top of a door frame - one foot on either side of the frame kind of thing - and leaps off. This will be a no-no going forward, and probably should have been before now, tbh, I admit.

Honestly, thanks again everyone.

A particular mention to @bumpertobumper - your advice really hit home.

If I was you I would send the other lady a nice note or give her a small box of chocolate saying thank you for bearing with us, sorry if we are noisy. When you talk just say that you ll try to be considerate but can’t be quiet because that’s normal family noise.