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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
Notavegan · 18/03/2021 18:49

She sounds somewhat unwell, or unhinged.

bluebluezoo · 18/03/2021 18:51

We have a lovely little yard, but alas little space for climbing. Thankfully, being in a bubble with my parents, we use their garden a lot, which has got a climbing frame and some great trees for climbing too. We also live next to lots of parks. Definitely going to start banning the climbing indoors since we have so much opportunity for her to do it outside!

Mine was a climber- i signed her up to gymnastics classes as well as ballet and swimming. Figured the gymnastics would at least teach her to climb safely, and exercise in general would wear her out so she wouldn’t need to climb at home.

It worked- she got very good at gymnastics and at one point I think was spending more time there than at home!

There’s lots of climbing related stuff- climbing walls, trampolining, cheerleading... find her somewhere to express it!

crazycatgal · 18/03/2021 18:55

YANBU, you should not be expected to stop normal noise and tiptoe around the house at 7pm.

Justhadathought · 18/03/2021 18:59

or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down,Is this a thing 🤨

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD
RedMarauder · 18/03/2021 19:10

@SabrinaMorningstar

I grew up in a flat and we weren't allowed to jump or thump about , or shout up and down stairs. I always assumed that was basic consideration when you had close neighbours so it's interesting to me that so many posters seem to think it's ok to make that much noise.
One way of keeping kids quiet is to blame the neighbours e.g. say they will be upset and start complaining if you make noise. Grin

The neighbour won't get anywhere complaining about everyday noise e.g. being able to hear someone talking at normal volume, using the vacuum cleaner and kids' playing, which is what the OP's child is doing.

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 19:20

@Justhadathought

or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down,Is this a thing 🤨
That's the one!
OP posts:
Betsyboopy · 18/03/2021 19:30

Just ignore her, she sounds a bit nuts or perhaps very stressed out. Staying in a room throughout lockdown probably didn't help.. You're not obliged to accommodate anyone choosing to sleep at 6 pm. Certainly can't be expected to make your DD be more silent than a normal kid her age.

DulciUke · 18/03/2021 19:31

Wow--I thought that I was the only one who climbed door frames when little. Interesting to hear that it isn't unusual at all! Good luck with your meeting, OP.

Shrivelled · 18/03/2021 19:34

Why is a women in her early 20s living alone in one room and going to bed between 6-7pm on a Friday night Confused it sounds like a really sad existence and she’s probably very isolated and having a breakdown.

Ohdobequiet · 18/03/2021 19:36

Definitely don’t engage, she doesn’t sound rihjt

Thighdentitycrisis · 18/03/2021 19:38

I have some sympathy for both you and the neighbour, I wouldn’t shout up the stairs to my your daughter I would walk up to her and speak in a normal volume, not least because I would want to teach her by my example how I expect her to address me, and nothing wrong with learning to be considerate of others.

On the other hand, neighbour is being unreasonable going to bed so early

Maybe she didn’t say anything before now based on not wanting to upset you and on the response she got in November?

Daphnise · 18/03/2021 19:51

I'd be with you but the jumping off doors and cupboards is bound to be noisy, and you should make DD cease this behaviour at once.

The neighbour won't get anywhere with normal domestic noise from you and an average child- but do average children jump from door frames so frequently you actually chose to mention it?

Erkrie · 18/03/2021 20:01

My DD used to climb the doorframes when her arms and legs were exactly the right length to work her way crab style to the top. As soon as she grew a little she couldn't do anymore as she couldn't brace herself against the frame.

Springquartet · 18/03/2021 20:12

The 4 page letter suggests to me that she is struggling with other issues. I had this from a neighbour with regard to a house that I used to live in and now rent out. She sent me an email complaining that she could hear noises through the wall - such as a hairdryer - and that there must be cracks in the walls.

I must admit that I took this seriously at first and even posted a thread on Mumsnet for advice. She wanted me to get someone to look for the cracks and repair them. I didn't do this because I realised that it would be expensive and wouldn't lead to anything. I also felt that the noise that she was describing was normal in a Victorian terraced house.

Sometime afterwards she ambushed the person who was decorating my house, insisting that there were cracks in the walls. The decorator went into the neighbour's house and brought her into my house to show her that there were no cracks and assured her that the noise was normal. The decorator's verdict was that my neighbour was hearing things.

I would suggest that you don't apologise and don't let the neighbour think that there is anything that you can personally do to resolve her problem - as that's what she wants. Also don't worry that you have told your dd, just turn it into a joke.

expat101 · 18/03/2021 20:16

I think you are both in the right and it's a building problem that needs to be addressed by the property owners.

All parties have a right to ''quiet enjoyment'' of their space. How about you both organise for Council or whoever does healthy home type inspections, to come out to both properties and take some measurements/readings?

See this as a mutual problem and try and solve it together.

ClaudiaWankleman · 18/03/2021 20:20

I'd be with you but the jumping off doors and cupboards is bound to be noisy, and you should make DD cease this behaviour at once.

The neighbour won't get anywhere with normal domestic noise from you and an average child- but do average children jump from door frames so frequently you actually chose to mention it?

I got a detention for doing what @Justhadathought showed a picture of on our classroom door at lunch once. I think it is pretty common (we were all doing it!)

TurquoiseLemur · 18/03/2021 20:22

Loads of people saying "Why on earth does she go to bed at 7pm?" It's been explained by the OP, the neighbour is a medical student on work placements (i.e. shifts, some of which are at night.)

The awkward initial contact, the 4 pages of A4, the hypersensitivity to noise, suggested autism to me too. My MIL, on the spectrum, is still angry more than a decade after HER neighbour accidentally snipped some leaves off a shrub which was poking through their joint fence. A huge over-reaction which MIL herself still considers to be totally reasonable. It's sad but the OP has to be completely firm about this: the expectation for almost-total silence is unreasonable.

Noshowlomo · 18/03/2021 20:35

Just sounds like normal noise to me OP.
Hope the convo goes ok x

Twistiesandshout · 18/03/2021 20:41

"climb to the top of the door frame and drop down"

Very normal for adventurous kids!

You are not being unreasonable, honestly don't let her bother you, she needs to get over herself!!

Parkerwhereareyou · 18/03/2021 20:59

Um, it's not normal for an adult to go to sleep at 6pm. If she has some weird work hours, those are weird work hours. You're just a normal little family with standard hours.

Don't beat yourself up about this. You pay rent for your place. She lives through the wall but you're not doing anything antisocial. You can't actually take full responsibility for the walls being thin, her life and where she's living, etc.

I'd actually restrict interaction and give a clear response along these lines:

I'm so sorry you've been disturbed by us being next door. Unfortunately the walls are very thin. We are just the two of us - myself and my daughter - and I am careful that we don't stay up late or make any excessive noise, play music, etc. However, my daughter is young and I can only keep her quiet to a certain degree, as I'm sure you'll understand.

I wonder whether it might be mentioning to your landlord that you can hear everything through the wall, and perhaps they could have the sound separation insulation checked and/or improved?

Again, I'm sorry we disturb you, but I'm not sure what we can do. Let me know if you'd like me to help in talking to your landlord.

Offer that. You can't do anything. You're being pretty quiet. She has to get on with it or move.

...

Desnol · 18/03/2021 21:36

The sad thing here is that you and your neighbour are forced into conflict by the lockdown and by walls which transmit sounds all too well.

She has shown that she doesn't want conflict and wants to find a way of resolving the problem by approaching you, and you and your daughter (she sounds such a sweet 6 year old) have shown that you don't want conflict by trying to be reasonable. None of you are unreasonable or at fault - you both have different needs which have been brought into conflict by the poor sound insulation.

As long as you both agree that is the real issue, then you have a chance - you can work together to resolve the issue - join forces, approach your landlord to install sound insulation on the wall asap. You could approach the council together to get advice on sound insulation - whatever you do, don't complain about each other - work together.

If the landlord won't do it, find out how you can get cheap temporary sound insulation fitted on one side of the wall. There are DIY acoustic panels on the market which are easy to fit. You could ask the landlord to fund it and offer that you both fit it to her wall together, and then wallpaper over it, or paint it. You could make a friend for life!

Neither of you should be expected to change your life and suffer in silence (no pun intended), your enemy is the poor wall insulation.

There's only one thing which you could perhaps do - both to help your neighbour and for your own peace of mind - get a bean bag or gym mat, so when your daughter jumps, she lands on something soft - less noise and less risk of injury!

I remember when I was that age (7 or 8 years old) - I used to clamber all over garden walls and trees, and my particular hobby was jumping off a 8 ft high wall onto grass - for a few seconds it felt like I was weightless and literally flying. I would do it over and over again, and my horrified parents couldn't stop me! Eventually I grew out of it, the novelty wore off, but I'm still amazed that I didn't break a leg, twist an ankle or worse.

MNWorldisCrazy · 18/03/2021 21:36

@Shrivelled

Why is a women in her early 20s living alone in one room and going to bed between 6-7pm on a Friday night Confused it sounds like a really sad existence and she’s probably very isolated and having a breakdown.
She's a student doctor on a medical placement HmmHmmHmm
longtompot · 18/03/2021 21:50

@Justhadathought

or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down,Is this a thing 🤨
This is what my ds did, but between the walls not the door frame. It was hilarious the first time I saw him at the ceiling!
ballsdeep · 18/03/2021 21:54

Op I'd tread carefully here. if you now down to her ridiculous demands, and she goes to bed at 6pm, then you will forever be treading on egg shells and oussy footing around her. Stand firm. You have a young child. You are going to make noise, you can't live your life in your own home afraid of breathing too loudly.

SingingInTheShithouse · 18/03/2021 21:59

Crikey, I'd swap your neighbour for you as a neighbour any day. She has no clue what a real noise problem is, if that's really all she has to deal with. She should try our neighbour, who currently have ASB people looking into the problem we have & they've said to us after hearing our recordings of his noise are extreme - screaming to the heavens & holding online sermons for anything up to 8 hours a day🤪 it has been horrendous & the stress has affected my health badly.

I can confirm that you do become tuned in & over sensitive to any noise from that neighbour, but in our case with good reason. You NDNs situation sounds very different.

That said I'd be concerned for her, as she sounds to be at breaking point. I remember my Nana having a nervous breakdown & she started out by being unreasonably stressed by her neighbours normal everyday noise. Her neighbours were an elderly couple too, so like you, not at all noisy, but she was ill, overwhelmed & became hyper focused & just couldn't cope. In my Nanas case this was caused by pernicious anaemia/B12 deficiency & treatment helped her a lot, including the SPD. It might be relevant though if your neighbour is vegan, especially is she's stressed & not eating well. My dad had PTSD & that made him hypersensitive & hyper-vigilant, so there can be other causes for NDNs odd behaviour other than ASD.

That's not to say that your NDNs health or state of mind is your responsibility, I'm sure you have enough on your plate, but I'd be firm but very kind to her & look for opportunity in the conversation to enquire about her health & make suggestions if an opportunity arises. But who knows, you might just make a friend.

Things you could try...

Arrange with your neighbour that she keeps a diary of what she hears from you for the day - then go out for most of that day & note the times, but don't tell NDN. You can then see if what she hears compares to when you are in & out if your house. If she still hears noise & you know you weren't in, then you can be sure it's not you that's disturbing her the most

& if it is you, you can try & work with her in suggesting reasonable solutions, sometimes acoustics in buildings can be weird & noise carry along pipes etc. We had this years ago with an old neighbour & it literally just needed a speaker moving away from a pipe to solve the problem of us hearing their music.

Noise cancelling headphones are a good suggestion as it soundproofing the dividing wall, though look at flooring too, sometimes people take up carpets for bare floorboards & then wonder why noise comes through their floor.

We had an issue with a different neighbour some years back. We weren't getting anywhere sorting it out as it was complicated by frequent new neighbours & so we bought a special soundproof plaster board & lined the dividing wall with it lined & had sound proof underlay put down & moved wardrobes to that wall as they also absorb sound. This fixed the problem, so it can be done by the landlord. The council's EHL department can force her landlords hand to fix a noise issue if the building isn't up to regulations, I've known that happen with neighbours who had issues with poor sound proofing.

& as above, you & your daughter sound lovely, try not to stress to much as they others are right, that's what your daughter is reacting to, she can feel your stress.

Good luck