Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

[SheikahSlate]

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

The strain of the current situation is probably getting to her. Long hours, study etc. If she is struggling be gentle but firm.

@MishaHarrow

Your neighbour sounds like a Karen tbh

Please don't say this. It's horribly misogynistic as well as ageist.

I grew up in a flat and we weren't allowed to jump or thump about , or shout up and down stairs. I always assumed that was basic consideration when you had close neighbours so it's interesting to me that so many posters seem to think it's ok to make that much noise.

Make reasonable adjustments, stop DD jumping around the house and maybe don't shout for dinner but don't do anything else.

Your neighbour could wear headphones when she's studying or trying to sleep, if you adapt she needs to adapt too, the world doesn't revolve around this girl.

This girl has been nosey and neurotic. Knocking on the door when your mother was there was rude, it was one guest and people are in bubbles.

Good luck

@SabrinaMorningstar

I grew up in a flat and we weren't allowed to jump or thump about , or shout up and down stairs. I always assumed that was basic consideration when you had close neighbours so it's interesting to me that so many posters seem to think it's ok to make that much noise.

But OP lives in a semi detached house, not a flat.

I think making noise between the hours of 8am and 10pm which are normal waking hours is usually ok - so long as there is not a lot of shouting happening, walking around in loud high heels, etc.
Our place has wood floors so we make a point of taking our shoes off. We don’t vacuum, run the laundry machine or anything loud like that after 9pm.
But you can’t stop moving around and having conversations in your own home.
Your neighbour does sound like she’s in a bad place. I would not apologise for living your life but maybe showing some empathy (e.g., I’m sorry you are going through such a hard time) might help her realise you’re human too and to be more realistic in what she expects

@thecatandthevicar

climb to the top of the door frame and drop down often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!

you do sound a bit of a pain frankly.

You absolutely don’t.

@SabrinaMorningstar my mum lives in a flat and I've told my son he can't jump at hers (she has neighbours directly below). He also can't shout continuously but once a day to say dinner is ready isn't the same.

I'm feeling very grateful for my lovely neighbour right now. Me and my son played hide & seek when we got in and both got animated haha.

There are two of you living there she needs to chill out! I would gently explain that normal household noise is impossible to stop and if you move out a larger louder family could move in.

Noise cancelling headphones?
“climb to the top of the door frame and drop down” DD does that. Jumps off the bed, screams, shouts, plays, always in bed by 8pm at the latest. It’s just normal life, there’s not much you can do. I do sympathise with the NDN though. We have a sound proofed cellar and no neighbours to the one side, we aren’t attached. I honestly think we would have to move if we were attached as the noise carries so much. You can hear us in the garden if we sing in the bathroom!

You aren’t playing loud music at midnight or crashing about throughout the early hours. It could be much worse if she lived next door to students.

I think you need to tell her in the nicest way possible that the only way to cut down the noise is to speak to the Landlord.
If your walls are so thin she can hear a conversation, that's not normal.
Maybe put your TV on it's normal level and ask if you can go in and see how loud it is, and ask her to come to your so she can hear that your not cranking it up.
Remind her your child goes to be at an early hour and that after this time the children sounds will be stopped.
Tell her that you understand her points but she also has to realise you have a right to a normal life as well and it's not normal to expect someone to whisper in their own home.

You aren't doing anything wrong in your home. Remember that when you talk to her.

I'd be clear but firm. You'll try to cut down on the shouting in the evenings when you're in different rooms, but other than that, it's a semi-detached and you are living and making normal family noise. If she can't cope with it, she needs to reconsider her own housing choices.

It sounds to be as if she lives an incredibly quiet life and has got a bit OCD about any noise. I don't think its unusual in people who live alone. Obviously, if the previous tenant of your house was out most of the time she's been spoiled to be able to indulge her preference for total peace. She's got used to it to the point that she expects it's her right! If she finds normal family noise (and it doesn't sound as if you're being noisy really) difficult to cope with maybe she needs to be the one to move.

Could she not use noise-cancelling headphones? She seems to be just blaming you rather than looking at what she can do to improve her own situation?

Could you not spend more time in the room in your house that's not next to her only room? We have a very quiet next-door-neighbour who we are only usually aware of when she has her family over (who are very noisy!). I suspect she lives in her kitchen as you just never hear her in either the sitting room or dining room (not even a TV on).

I think it's totally unacceptable to be complaining about usual family noise from 6pm though.

Being sympathetic is the best you can do. You can’t tiptoe around and whisper because of someone else who lives next door. We’ve had building work going on next for the whole of lockdown and I can barely hear myself think with all the banging/drilling etc but I just my noise cancelling headphones on and carry on with my work. There’s nothing else for it. She can’t expect you not to talk! Very unreasonable on her part.

Your neighbour will never be happy OP. You sound like you are being perfectly normal in noise levels, as others have said your neighbour is hyper sensitive to noise.

I'd probably decline further conversations with her other than to point her to the nearest estate agent.

So she can't stand noise but puts music on to drown out your noise which means she's making even more noise for herself 🤔

If it was me I would ignore her. And if she carrys on I would advice her to report me. Make sure you keep her letters though incase they are needed. Just live your life normally like a family does. Do not walk on egg shells for her.

@FluWorldOrder

The OP was unnecessarily longwinded and you both sound as irritating as each other. This is why I can't wait to leave this shitty ass country and go back to where detached houses are well.. normal houses. None of this living jammed in like sardines. Ridiculous. Tell her to jump.

No-one forced you either to click on this thread, @FluWorldOrder, or to read all of OP's post.

As you hate living here so much, I suggest you fulfil your wish to leave at the earliest possible opportunity.

Oh dear op , it’s probably already been said but unless you are screaming at each other and dd is noisy then normal chatting shouldn’t bother neighbours.
Saying that noise disturbance is a pain and yes I think this neighbour doesn’t sound like she’s in a good place . I suspect every little noise is a inconvenience but it shouldn’t disturb people.
Raised voices you can hear and I raise my voice from time to time but I doubt that 2 seconds of shouting isn’t going to disturb someone.
It honestly isn’t normal unless you really are loud then I can’t understand her .
I’d treat her kindly and tell her you’ll be mindful . Maybe suggest she records the sound so you can hear it .

@SheikahSlate

Wow, thank you everyone for these really supportive and reassuring responses. There's been so many already, so I'm sorry that I'm not responding individually.

What I'm gathering is that we're not doing anything wrong, but that there wouldn't be any harm in reducing the room-to-room shouting in the early evening, and that it would certainly be a good idea to dissuade my daughter from climbing the door frame. A couple of people have mentioned how weird this is. She loves climbing (she even abseils - complete with rope and harness - down the trees in my parents' garden. She's my dad's protege in this respect). She occasionally shimmies herself up to the top of a door frame - one foot on either side of the frame kind of thing - and leaps off. This will be a no-no going forward, and probably should have been before now, tbh, I admit.

Honestly, thanks again everyone.

A particular mention to @bumpertobumper - your advice really hit home.

Climbing door frames is not weird at all, I did it as a child, my children do it, I know loads of other kids that do it too. I’ve deliberately not shown my DCs how to climb around the banisters or told then of other things I use to climb as a child, my 8yo would be fine with it as climbing comes naturally to them but my 6 & 3yos would try copying and that would end up in A&E visits 😬

When I was a student I lived downstairs from a couple with a small child.

At first I honestly thought they were getting up at 6.30am to rearrange the furniture by dragging it round the flat.

However. If you live in a flat neighbour noise will happen. I’m sure they weren’t intentionally being noisy, and apart from the odd 6am on a sunday after a big night out we just lived with it.

Universities and hospitals have plenty of libraries and quiet rooms where people can study. She could easily put in a few hours there instead of home.

Going to bed at 6pm is just ridiculous and she shouldn’t be expecting you to accommodate that. I had a lovely neighbour once who if she knew I was on nights left her hoovering etc until late afternoon which I thought was very considerate.

I’d explain to her there will be normal family noise between 7am and 7pm as you do need to talk to each other, the telly will be on etc, and she’ll have to work round that.

If she feels the noise is excessive she needs to talk to environmental health.

The woman is going to struggle massively being a dr and working nights if she expects to be able to sleep at any time of the day and not require ear plugs.

I don’t believe it could be that bad, get her to record it.

sounds like a pain in the backside. As long as your not having booming music or shouting at silly o clock and being antisocial (ie if normal family noise) then sounds like she’s just being a bit precious.

Then again I don’t mind a bit of noise always been near a main road, lots of traffic, sirens, people etc so maybe I’m biased.

She should complain to landlord and ask for sound proofing on the mutual wall with your house.

I'm sorry for her but she needs to take steps herself to address this. In the short term, noise cancelling headphones and ear plugs at night. In the longer term, move.