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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
TinaTurnoff · 18/03/2021 17:40

Remind her that when lockdown lifts, your mum or friends may drop in for coffee more often, and your little girl will probably have some friends over occasionally. You might even have friends in for dinner - imagine! All of these things are perfectly normal.

thosetalesofunexpected · 18/03/2021 17:43

Oops sorry about my Typo mistake on my earlier Post,

I ment to say,
Tell your neighbour that's its natural (normal to have every day family household noise going on,
don't feel guilty about that,
its ridiculous you feel,so (Parnoid) now that you have to whisper ,
Nobody does that in their own house,
its not natural,.

your next for neighbour is also being a bit unreasonable to expect so,
As its a "two way street"
(theres needs to be some Consideration/bit of compromising on both sides,(on yours and your neighbour aswell.

Soontobe60 · 18/03/2021 17:49

The fact that shes written such a long letter speaks volumes.
I would apologise for the noise, explain that its impossible to keep a 6 yr old child silent and suggest she invest in some noise cancelling headphones and ear plugs!

GammyLeg · 18/03/2021 17:51

Sounds like she’s under a lot of pressure. I feel sorry for her but you aren’t doing anything wrong.

I used to shimmy up the inside of the door frame too! Like a lithe little monkey.

AnotherKrampus · 18/03/2021 17:58

Her issues with normal noise aren't yours to worry about. If she wants total silence then she either needs to move to somewhere totally isolated or should join some community with a vow of silence. Her stress over studying is her problem and something that she needs to address because you cannot expect the world to stop. When I was younger, I had a neighbour who was similar but the cheeky fecker was ultra noisy, partying etc and then it seems wrote his essays at the last moment, stressing and expect me to tiptoe. I used international sign language to convey the unreasonableness of his cheeky complaints. Her letter(s) is why shredders were invented, although, I suppose you better hang on to them in case you need to lodge a complaint about harassment against the cheeky mare.

Cactus1982 · 18/03/2021 17:59

Oh just tell to fuck off. She sound like an entitled cow who’s probably grown up in a detached house and has no idea what normal neighbourly noise sounds like. I grew up in a Victorian terrace and we could hear our neighbours TV from the hallway. Sometimes we heard music or DIY. Did we complain!? No! because they were just living their lives and we are not entitled twats who thinks the world should march to our tune.

longtompot · 18/03/2021 18:02

It sounds like normal noise and it's not late at night.
Your neighbour needs to make preparations for the things that are disturbing her.
If she is trying to study she needs to wear noise cancelling headphones. I can't believe she plays music to drown out your noise and studies to it when normal noises stop her from studying.
As she goes to sleep early, she needs some decent earplugs. They don't block all the noise but they will dull it enough so you can fall asleep.
Sadly, it sounds like she has become extremely noise sensitive and even the slightest noise will be too much for her.
When you have your conversation I wouldn't apologise, just suggest these things to her. I hope you have a productive chat that leads to a mutually satisfactory solution.

As for climbing door frames, my ds used to do pull-ups from his. He also used to climb up the walls outside our bathroom. The walls were just a doors width apart so he'd have a leg and arm on each side and end up at the ceiling! A lot of kids like climbing. I loved climbing trees when I was little.

Just thought op, do you have a garden? Could you install a climbing frame for your dd?

thosetalesofunexpected · 18/03/2021 18:02

The issue is unfornately in those kinds of flats, there walls are so thin, (even every days sounds of a toilet flushing can be heard for God sake.😂

@thecatandthevicar

I think both sides of this neighbourhood issue need to compromise /show consideration
somewhat !

Weonlyhavealoanofit · 18/03/2021 18:02

I think it’s important to trust your own judgment and your neighbour (whether due to stress or some other issue) is not being very reasonable. Normal everyday interaction is not going to create excessive noise, so be clear in your own mind that the complaint being made (that you and your daughter are noisy inconsiderate neighbours) simply isn’t accurate or fair. I do wonder how a medical student is going to cope when she’s on the ward and interacting with people needing treatment. If this young student is hyper sensitive nothing you do short of taking a vow of silence is going to satisfy her demands, so I’d avoid trying too hard to reach an accommodation with her, because it will involve some unworkable daft compromise.

notalwaysalondoner · 18/03/2021 18:04

I agree - you're doing nothing out of the ordinary, if she was complaining you were making noise after 10pm or before 7am I'd say fair enough, but just because she chooses to go to bed at 6/7pm doesn't mean she can expect her neighbours to tiptoe around.

notalwaysalondoner · 18/03/2021 18:07

Also, is she renting or owning? Because frankly, if she's renting, she can move - you aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. And if she owns, she can soundproof. So it's not all on you to change your behaviour.

whataboutbob · 18/03/2021 18:12

I haven’t read the whole thread and it seems from the OPs 1st post the neighbour is over sensitive. The activities and noise sound fine. We are in a flat with two medical students below us, and I dread to think how they feel about our noise with 2 teenage boys, rowing, zoom drum lessons, zoom kick fit lessons , TV etc. They haven’t complained once.
However, I think that going to bed at 6 pm after a stretch of working nights wouldn’t be that unusual .

icheatatscrabble · 18/03/2021 18:13

As a grad student who lives in a flat and like your neighbour I need to read a lot of difficult material and work long hours. It's hard to concentrate at the best of times but even normal neighbour noise can make it impossible. Some people are very noise sensitive too.

However, I've bought noise cancelling headphones and use them with earplugs when necessary, I also understand that people have to live their lives and I've said nothing to my neighbours. I'd say she needs to either get headphones or move to somewhere with more solid walls tbh.

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 18:14

@longtompot

Just thought op, do you have a garden? Could you install a climbing frame for your dd?

We have a lovely little yard, but alas little space for climbing. Thankfully, being in a bubble with my parents, we use their garden a lot, which has got a climbing frame and some great trees for climbing too. We also live next to lots of parks. Definitely going to start banning the climbing indoors since we have so much opportunity for her to do it outside!

Thanks again to everyone for all the responses. Hopefully the meeting goes well tomorrow. I know how I'm going to respond. I will post an update here...it will be much shorter this time, I promise. Blush Grin

OP posts:
MsTSwift · 18/03/2021 18:17

Having had “proper” bad neighbors I’m afraid my sympathy for her is limited. She would expire if she had our old neighbors!

Gangsta rap played loudly at all times tick
Large out of control dogs that shat in our garden tick
Drug dealing tick
Undesirable types hanging around outside so we had to run the gamut every time we left the house tick
Loud thick conversations in garden so no peace tick
None worked so always there tick
Heavy weed smoking so washing smelt of it if on line tick.

Dh and I were quite left wing til we lived next to them.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 18/03/2021 18:21

YANBU surely the noise could also be coming from the other flats in her unit if you said there were 6 of them? She is the one with the unusual hours so as others have said for her sanity she needs to use earplugs/white noise etc.

LadyEloise · 18/03/2021 18:29

She is being totally unreasonable but I would put a stop to your dd launching herself off a door Shock as you might need the services of said neighbour if she is injured, plus the landlord wouldn't be happy having to replace the door.
Suggest earphones/ headphones.

GinaJaffacake · 18/03/2021 18:30

Is the door frame thing one foot on either side? My DD did this too but neither of my boys have done it.
Neighbour sounds unhinged. Is she sure the noise is coming from your house? What would she do if you weren’t a single parent and continued having normal level conversations throughout the evening? The ridiculously long letter just suggests to me that she’s a) somewhat spoilt and likely grew up in a detached home with no near neighbours or noisy siblings and b) is slightly unhinged.
You need to explain that whilst you’ll try and be considerate, it’s your home and you have a 6yr old and 6yr olds are rarely quiet. Do not apologise or she’ll see that as vindication that your noise level is unreasonable. Ask her to double check the noise is coming from your side as it’s surely far more likely coming from one if the other conversion. Perhaps it’s time she moved. What if you were a family of 4 or 5?

TheDoctorDances · 18/03/2021 18:31

How is she going to manage in the summer if we can start having barbecues and parties again?

I can easily hear my neighbour having a party from 150ft away when it’s in full swing, through closed windows.

GNCQ · 18/03/2021 18:32

You might find this funny, your post reminds me of something my Dad told me about his life as a twenty-something.

He lived for a while above a chip shop or takeaway shop of some kind and got very much into meditation. Meditation was very important to him.

Anyway this takeaway shop had a clock on the wall, below where he lived. It was a normal clock that went tick tock tick tock yknow like they did in the 60's.

He wrote a letter to the shop complaining that he could hear the clock ticking and could they do something about it because he is trying to meditate.

My dad relayed the story to me in utter embarrassment that he was such a dick! We both laughed heartily.

Hopefully your neighbor will grow up one day and realise the error of her ways. You're a normal person doing normal things don't worry about it.

SeasonFinale · 18/03/2021 18:32

The reality is she could actually be living next to a house full of partying students rather than a mother and a young daughter.

It does not sound as though she has shifts just is tired on a Friday so goes to bed early and then can't sleep (so not that tired then).

If she finds her room noisy to study she can of course access workspace in her uni in normal times. The issue is it is not normal times and she will have to help herself (with earplugs for sleep and noise cancelling earphones for study).

Tell her the noise coming from your flat is normal level noise but that if she feels it is not she is welcome to ask the council to gauge noise levels.

DolphinDreams · 18/03/2021 18:34

OP , you daughter climbing is such a natural and healthy thing to do. It makes her stronger and is even good for her brain (especially hanging from things, apparently 🤷🏻‍♀️). If she was constantly banging and thumping at unreasonable hours then I'd limit it. But the odd thump, in the day ? I'd leave a little girl to her physical play.

You and your daughter are as entitled to the lifestyles you choose as your neighbour. I don't see why her needs should be the default position.

2021namechanger · 18/03/2021 18:43

She sounds deranged. Honestly don’t give more than five minutes to her, otherwise this will not stop, don’t talk about what you do in your home etc. Just say “I’m sorry but we make usual family noise. Contact your landlord if you feel your soundproofing is not adequate.” Her issue is not yours - don’t let her make it so.

Dwrcegin · 18/03/2021 18:43

OP is she sure the noise is just coming from your house and not the adjoining flats?

Has she spoken to her landlord regarding the noise and how it affects her?

From your post, it appears you are making average noise to be honest.

thosetalesofunexpected · 18/03/2021 18:45

@Biwi

@MishaHarrow

I don't know why you said she sounds like a "Karen" termnology, about op next door neighbour !

this is a American terminology to describe a entitled white (causian) woman who has conscious prejudice, who acts on this,
such as the infamous incident in which Afro-American man who was birdwatching was hazzled by a woman ,who did not like him saying to her, where the boundaries to walk in the park were,
so she in turn,
felt she needed to put him firmly back in his place in American racist hierarchical society,
(similar to the lndian caste system in that aspect,
skin colour defines how you will be treated(mistreated) in that society too,
This woman uses his ethnicity his skin colour as a weapon,(against him,
as she knows in American racist society,

A racist policeman will allways believe what she says,(no matter what cock and bull story she says)
(she is determind to make a example of him,
as she feels he has spoken out of his place,
Her arrogant entitled attitude is how dare a Afro American man speak to me like that,
(its a echo from the past of colonial times,in which people from my Culture were mistreated as subordinates/(slaves )
its that kind of dynamic !
(You can really see the(racist(prejudice)
power balance biased in American society in that central Park interaction incident.!
(the ironic thing is people with that kind of attitude of entitlement in America !
(Is its not their country America !
Its was originally Native Americans Country of origin.!

(I really do not understand that kind of weird entitled Attitude cause of that reason.!