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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
BeingATwatItsABingThing · 18/03/2021 16:07

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No! We don't do 'Karens' here do we?
Dear god I hope not!
SilverDoe · 18/03/2021 16:08

I've been through this OP. I live in a maisonette which is converted from large link detached house; she had the small one bed flat and we have the rest. We moved in around the same time, me first, and she was horrible since day one. Constantly banging on the walls and shouting, she was awful. We were doing nothing wrong or out of the ordinary, kids are 12 hour sleepers and have been from a young age, we don't have parties, play music or have friends round. Very quiet introverted people. She would bang at 11am on a Saturday, all to do with the kids walking on the floor. There's just nothing I could do about it as we were already so over stressed and hyper aware of noise. I'm convinced the constant having to tell them to even fucking walk quietly has shaped my poor middle child :(

We now have a new neighbour and he has never said anything about the noise, and we have an extra child now! So it was definitely her. Some people are sensitive to noise (me included) but do absolutely nothing on their end to combat it, and think they are entitled to silence from everyone around them, at their convenience. It would not take much for her to get some ear plugs, play some music, move her computer. All small steps that go towards living harmoniously with neighbours.

I'm like you OP though, it was an incredibly stressful time of my life. Even environmental health told me I was doing absolutely nothing wrong and it was devastating being made to feel like I was such an awful person.

AliceMcK · 18/03/2021 16:08

I think your attitude is right having sympathy for your neighbour is fine but you shouldn’t let her issues impact your home life at all.

I’d suggest she invests in noise-cancelling headphones and plays some white noise or something if she want to go to bed early. Her neighbours can not be expected to accommodate her life.

We currently live next door to students and there is not a chance I’d stop my kids from playing outside or making normal family noises inside including screaming, fighting, playing music, dancing...they are kids. Just like I’d not expect the student to stop smoking weed at night or playing football in the back garden while drunk at 3am.

Escapetab · 18/03/2021 16:09

Your noise level is totally reasonable. Please - don't make yourselves be quieter or accept that you're being too noisy, because that would set am unreasonable bar both for yourself and for anyone who lives next door to this woman in the future.

It's normal family life. That includes calling up and downstairs at times during daytime and early evening. State that to her and don't budge from it. I let shitty neighbours make mine and my family's life miserable in a situation like this, don't make the same mistake.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/03/2021 16:11

@MishaHarrow I've been on the FWR boards for too long to use a womans name as a form of mockery. I don't like it. And, even though I am fully aware how po-faced it makes me sound, I think it demeans any woman using it as a slur!

@BeingATwatItsABingThing OK! Smile I should have worded it better. But I did take care about the ' ' placement!!

Dasher789 · 18/03/2021 16:11

Other than meeting up with her to be a friendly neighbour, tbh, i don't see much point. Your NDN sounds like they are suffering with mental health which is not your responsibility to guide her through. I definitely agree that she has become fixated on the noise if she still has the letter written at xmas to hand, 3 months later. If I were you, I would try and avoid her as far as possible. If you must discuss the issue with her all you should say is that you sympathise but there is nothing you can do. She is the anti social one to demand silence at 7pm every night. She should count herself lucky that there is only yourself and DD in the house, it sounds like she would literally not cope with a larger family. You cannot live on eggshells and be tip toeing around because your neighbour is highly tuned to sound. It is like when you read stories about people who live above a pub and then are shocked at noise or people loitering outside. It is ludicrous. Part of living in a flat block is noise - she needs to get over it or move somewhere more suitable.

Escapetab · 18/03/2021 16:11

There's just nothing I could do about it as we were already so over stressed and hyper aware of noise. I'm convinced the constant having to tell them to even fucking walk quietly has shaped my poor middle child.

This is exactly it - teaching kids that they have no right to take up a normal amount of space in the world, and that they should be sitting quietly watching a screen or something when what they SHOULD be doing is running around and playing, inside as well as out, is really damaging. (Not saying that's what you were doing, SilverDoe, just that it's a danger.)

2bazookas · 18/03/2021 16:11

Can you hear any sound at all through the wall from the woman's side? Her radio,TV, music, washing machine. vacuum cleaner, phone ringing, her voice on the phone, conversations.

If you can then she might have a point about very thin walls.
If you can't then carry on as normal.

greenlynx · 18/03/2021 16:12

She needs help. I would not be meeting with her, you also sound very sensitive so unless you feel like you have the spare emotional energy to support another adult I would cancel that.
This^
I wouldn’t be meeting with her. It looks like lockdown and living alone affected her quite a bit. Her demands are unreasonable and strange, it’s not like you’re putting on washing machine at midnight or shouting at 2a.m. The noise also could come from other flats. The most obvious explanation that the owner cut corners during conversion and didn’t make reasonable soundproofing + this young women has her own mental problems.
I would use this to discourage jumping from the door. It’s not safe and you can damage the door. Otherwise I would continue as before but will be vary of this neighbour.

pucelleauxblanchesmains · 18/03/2021 16:13

"I think your neighbour needs to change her degree course. If normal family noise causes her so much angst, she'll never cope with the pressures of life as a Junior Doctor" I don't think this sort of comment is fair tbh, it sounds like doing hospital placements in a pandemic has sent her a bit unhinged with stress.

MishaHarrow · 18/03/2021 16:13

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@MishaHarrow I've been on the FWR boards for too long to use a womans name as a form of mockery. I don't like it. And, even though I am fully aware how po-faced it makes me sound, I think it demeans any woman using it as a slur!

@BeingATwatItsABingThing OK! Smile I should have worded it better. But I did take care about the ' ' placement!![/quote]
Fair point Sapphire.

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 18/03/2021 16:15

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@MishaHarrow I've been on the FWR boards for too long to use a womans name as a form of mockery. I don't like it. And, even though I am fully aware how po-faced it makes me sound, I think it demeans any woman using it as a slur!

@BeingATwatItsABingThing OK! Smile I should have worded it better. But I did take care about the ' ' placement!![/quote]
I’m agreeing with you! Smile

I meant I hope we won’t be a site that uses ‘Karen’ to demean women!

Jumpers268 · 18/03/2021 16:16

OP do you want to come leave next door to me? 😁. I have neighbours both sides, one side has a son and it really is normal household noise. I actually quite like it. The only slight annoyance is her child's bedroom is next to my son's and the walls are thin. Her child does not sleep well. But I wouldn't dream of complaining though! On the other side, he's taken up learning the guitar during lockdown. After 6 months of practicing 6 hours a day it still makes me want to tear my ears off 😂. Still wouldn't dream of complaining. The only time I would complain is if it was excessive, continuous and between 10pm & 6am. Whilst I do feel really sorry for her and that she's clearly obsessing about it, this isn't for you to sort. This is for her to deal with. Noise cancelling headphones, ear plugs, speaking to her landlord, speaking to the council etc.

Notgoodatchoosingnames · 18/03/2021 16:17

Nothing much to add in the form of advice but wanted to say re the door frame climbing, my DS does this. In spiderman style apparently. Grin

SilverDoe · 18/03/2021 16:18

@Escapetab no you're absolutely right, I didn't go overboard as I absorbed most of the stress myself! But I did have to be a much shoutier parent than I ever thought at times and it was sad as they were so little. I wish I could have been more assertive but it was so stressful and OP she has no right to ask you to inflict that on your child.

billy1966 · 18/03/2021 16:18

@JollyAndBright

You did very well in Nov when she knocked on your door initially.

I would be very careful not to apologise or make any promises or agreements to change the way you live.
You don’t have to be rude, you can say that you are sorry she is struggling, that lockdown has been hard for a lot of people and hopefully now we are turning a corner things will get easier.

You could maybe suggest that since the walls are so thin as she is so sensitive to noise she might want to witter to her landlord about cavity insulation.
But until then maybe she could invest in some noise cancelling headphones, I have the Bose quietcomfort ones and they are amazing.

the fact that she was lucky with a quiet neighbour before doesn’t mean you need to feel guilty about her struggling to adjust to living next door to a family with children, that the gamble you take living next to family sized houses.

I’ve had neighbours like this before, you have to be so careful not to let them think they can start dictating how you live in your own home.

Be very careful of being to apologetic.

What is SHE doing to help herself?

You are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your home.

Be very careful of encouraging her.

It's like someone moving to a house in a quiet cul de sac with a large Green and being irritated by all the children playing on it🤦‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️.
Of course a house surrounding a Green would be a meca for families and children!

Once you are being reasonable she needs to sort herself out.

Too apologetic will only encourage her.Flowers

Jenala · 18/03/2021 16:18

My son does the shimmying up the door frame thing. PPs sayings that's unacceptable etc are completely bizarre.

I have noise sensitivity and if I let it, lots of noises can drive me up the wall. I've had to learn mindfulness techniques to manage it and I often wear ear plugs at night as a result. I have soft ones for people with small ear canals that are really comfy. I think the neighbour needs to take a level of responsibility herself for how to manage things. If you get fixated on something it is so much worse. I think what you're saying is fine and don't feel a need to make further concessions. If she wants to go to bed at that time she needs to wear ear plugs or play white noise.

I once lived alone in a flat below a man who was completely insane and spent months on a campaign to get rid of me, constantly shouting and thumping on my ceiling and knocking on my door if I coughed. Screaming through the ceiling if I clicked my bathroom light on in the night. I ended up never cooking because he didn't like the sound of pans and plates, stopped watching TV etc. It's horrible to feel policed in your own home I so feel sorry for you OP.

RedMarauder · 18/03/2021 16:20

@2bazookas

Can you hear any sound at all through the wall from the woman's side? Her radio,TV, music, washing machine. vacuum cleaner, phone ringing, her voice on the phone, conversations.

If you can then she might have a point about very thin walls.
If you can't then carry on as normal.

Even if the walls are thin it is nothing to do with the OP as she didn't covert next door into flats and do a poor conversion.

Most housing is designed and built so residents in adjoining properties don't annoy each other which is why you get bedrooms directly above/directly below/next to bedrooms, kitchens directly above/directly below/next to kitchens etc

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 18/03/2021 16:20

In my experience, people who send 4 page letters of complaint are a bit obsessive and not likely to be satisfied with any measures you take to accommodate them. I would encourage your daughter to try not to jump about or thump the floor if she can avoid it, though. I feel for you - I have had 3 years of passive aggressive notes from my neighbour (who chucks them onto my balcony as she can't be bothered to walk round the corner to use my letterbox) and it does make your heart sink and your anxiety levels go up. I keep all hers in case I have to complain to council, etc in future.

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 18/03/2021 16:23

My neighbour's complaint isn't re noise though. Can't say what her prob is as would be outing.

RedMarauder · 18/03/2021 16:29

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork are you allowed to put temporary screening up on your balcony so she can't throw letters and other junk onto it?

Dandelion3 · 18/03/2021 16:30

It sounds like she's having a bit of a break down ?? I don't think there's anything you can do, I suppose you'll find out abit more about her state of mind when you see her but whilst you can empathise with her having some difficulties you can't go about your home whispering. You are not making any form of antisocial noise, sounds more that she's somehow struggling to cope with any form of noise (which sadly is her issue to try and overcome)

Just hopefully she speaks to someone about how stressed she is and gets some help

TeachesOfPeaches · 18/03/2021 16:32

I live in a flat and my neighbours had a party until 4am which started on a Monday night. You're worrying over nothing.

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 18/03/2021 16:37

I have a high trellis up between us and she pushes notes through the holes but she can also chuck them over dividing wall at any point as open to the skies. Thanks for suggestion though. I do have support from my other various lovely neighbours, one of whom is being bullied much more than me because she is too scared to stand up to her (I refuse to be bullied which I suspect is now understood at last!).

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 18/03/2021 16:38

Sorry. That was in reply to @redmarauder.

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