Do 'boyish'-looking girls get harrassed less than other women?

[Echobelly]

Wanted to ask about a theory of mine, as I've wondered about this before. I don't seem to have experienced anything like as much harrassment or worse than most other women - something I've very glad of. I totally believe it is as bad as other women say it is, btw, but I do wonder if I came in for less grief as I was small, flat chested and, during my teens and 20s, the most 'harrassable' ages i suppose, I had cropped short hair. I think maybe I just didn't register on the radar of the sort of bloke who likes to harrass or grope women so they left me alone.

I'm quite prepared that dozens of similar women will report yes, they were harrassed plenty, just interested to find out people's experiences and I need a largish sample to actually look into this!

I think it's more to do with if you stand out for any reason. So if your very attractive, nicely dressed. Or if you where a certain fashion or present yourself in a certain way.

I am very plain and always have been. I wouldn't say I'm ugly. I am fat now but I wasn't during my teens and my 20s. I have never ever recieved any harassment of comments at all. Not even once. I kind of just blend into the background. I used to have a few very attractive friends and they used to get a lot of unwanted attention

I think lots of men just hate women.
I’ve received different types of harassment depending on how I looked.
More of a show us your tits type whilst wearing make up and skirts. More aggressive in a don’t you ignore me bitch way when I have been wearing looser clothing and flat shoes. As for heir style I had very trendy short hair as a teenager and still got harrassed all the time. It’s just a bloody constant barrage.
Dd gets its more when she is casually dressed and looks like a school girl - no make up very pale looking, trainers, joggers hoodie etc. That is when older men start harassing her.
It’s bloody draining.
My other dd gets it whilst she us out running with her friend, all the time. Again from men not younger men/youths.
The last time it happened to me I was walking home from work, bust traffic and I was in flat shoes smart work wear, no visible make up. The guy kept stopping his car and trying to talk to me, telling me how gorgeous I was. Dh was fuming when I got gone and told him. He said I should have punched the guy straight in the face. I suppose that is the difference in dealing with harassment between what a man would do.

he likes to follow women around, walk close behind them, at night, just them getting nervous and worriedly looking over their shoulder gives him a “power kick”,

Pure bullying imv, and partly because he knows he can do it without retribution.
So there's bullying. There's showing off to mates. There's random opportunism as no one's around (but that's also bullying). There's inflated ego (all women fancy me). There's thinking you are an adonis so flirting is flattering to women. etc
Possibly if you can categorise the behaviour you can plan the most effective response to make them piss off.
It's not just all men like attractive, young women at all.

he likes to follow women around, walk close behind them, at night, just them getting nervous and worriedly looking over their shoulder gives him a “power kick”,

Pure bullying imv, and partly because he knows he can do it without retribution.

And also another problem is that if a woman retaliates by, say punching him in the face ( because shouting or telling him to go, or even ignoring, has failed)' she risks being taken to court on assault charges. Perhaps that is something the justice system needs to look into.
A woman cannot retaliate unless a man has physically attacked her or threatened with a knife - but with the disparity in size this is obviously not fair and reduces her chances of protecting herself.

@WindyPudding - that's hilarious... although also instructive, in that doing something unexpected can really throw people. Being small and female I do find guys in certain situations try to intimidate me, which gets me really angry (inside, at least) so I find I automatically go into calm, firm, not-intimidated mode and they're usually so suprised by that they back off, in my experience.

@Onlinedilema - sadly you are onto something with that. I think it's not so much hate as having no respect at all, because to them women aren't really people. Like Dnald Tru*mp they think that because they want to fuck women, that means that they like/love women, when they don't actually treat them as human beings worthy of respect.

I've had little attention of this kind over my life, I can only assume its cos I look like you don't want to mess with me and I don't dress very feminine

@PrintempsAhoy

“Looking like you’d fight back” can be achieved by doing self defence or martial arts

The simple fact that you have practiced and honed your reflexes (to push back and shout as soon as you are touched, instead of “freezing”) means you’re more likely to fight back (and probably exude this)

Very grateful to my school which gave all Y7 girls a term of self defence classes (I know how to break someone’s nose in one move and have practised on a dummy, also women need to remember to knee/kick the guy in the balls. Knowing any judi/karate or jiujitsu even better)

I learned to box when I was a teenager, and I too can break a nose, (in fact I know how to kill you) I know where to punch someone to either knock them out or wind them. But I'm still a woman, I'm a very small framed woman just under 5ft 4 and I don't respond to threat with freezing, I'm loopy if someone is threatening me physically! And yet I still had 3 men try to rape me (3 separate occasions) by the time I was 20. Not because I was attractive, asking for it, took huge risks, or even because I'm particularly vulnerable looking. But just because this is what some men do. As someone pointed out long ago to me....."you'll more likely get killed" maybe but no one can be held responsible for how they respond to fear, its down to the autonomic nervous system and i think some women will freeze irrespective of how much self defence training.

I think women who look like they don't take shit from people do get harassed less. I wouldn't say I am 'boy ish'. I have always had long hair, dress in an average way that I wouldn't think is particularly masculine, but I'm tall and not a waif. I think my face generally says don't mess with me (and I have quite an assertive personality - I quite often give people a very public talking to if they mess with me). I certainly have been harassed on the street - more when I was younger than anytime recently - but I do think I get it less than some women. I think some of that is down to how I dress (I don't really draw attention to myself, so I don't think people notice me much), but I think a lot of it is due to demeanour and also being slightly more threatening than some women, and bigger than many of them.

I think being too 'boy ish' though can attract attention and harassment though, because we live in a very gendered and homophobic society.

There’s been studies where men who’ve raped have told what they look out for in women, among looks that were discussed also factored in was whether a girl looked like she’d fight back. Unfortunately, there are female characteristics they look out for too.

But then for every man who goes for long blonde hair, there will be the one who prefers brown hair in a pony tail, or short hair, or... perhaps not in equal numbers, but that does not really matter, because the end, all that matters is you and the man who is there at the same time as you and who is going to be an arsehole, and will find some reason, because it's about him, not you.

Most rapes are carried out by a known attacker, often family or a close associate. So having certain characteristics such as blues eyes, blonde hair must be red herrings in most cases.

@MiniTheMinx yes, I hope you don’t think I was victim blaming

I am just very pragmatic at times, and think of possible solutions , things that might help

Not some magic panacea

Sadly

@Onlinedilema

Most rapes are carried out by a known attacker, often family or a close associate. So having certain characteristics such as blues eyes, blonde hair must be red herrings in most cases.

Exactly.

Same with the murders.

All of this nonsense about locking men up would make the rates rocket.

@PinkArt

Anecdotal again, but I have a very 'classically female' body - big boobs, hips, bum. My boobs especially get commented on loads. I think it's a body shape that's been sexualised and in a warped mind I'm somehow putting myself out there. When I'm just existing in my body.

I agree with this.

I was very hourglass with large breasts and it's like they thought I'd purposefully chosen that body to get their attention.

Now I'm fat and invisible and it actually puts me off wanting to lose weight because I can actually pinpoint the size/weight I can be for comments to start again.

It even differs between black/Asian men, older men and younger men. They each have a point at which they start harassing me as I lose weight. And yes, I'm aware that sounds racist but it's my lived experience.

I get more attention in my work clothes, which are combats, fleece and steel toe caps and zero make up than I do in my normal clothes.
My theory is that I feel more comfortable in my work clothes and under absolutly no pressure to look good, so much more relaxed and myself.
If I'm wearing my normal stuff, even when it's smart I just feel uptight, I'm sure that comes across.

They get a different type of harassment that's all.

My partner is pretty masculine. When she was younger she used to wear super striking make up. A while ago she stopped wearing make up and lots of people (well... men) thought, at least in passing, that she was a man. I know this because we climb together and quite a few times I've heard people waiting to climb say "just gonna have a go on what this guy is trying now" while she was climbing. Never heard a woman say the same thing and a couple of times I saw women with the blokes in question visibly die when their friends mistook my partner for another guy

She's never really been harassed in the time I have known her, whether made up and feminine presenting or with her current look. she's somehow also pretty fierce looking and you'd think, rightly, that if you did touch her uninvited, you'd be lucky to get your hand back.

But the experience in the climbing gym for example made me think in relation to the idea that OP is asking about that many people are not really super observant and don't spend alot of time really looking about them. Maybe you escape simply because you pass that immediate inspection and then if they did work it out then the moment of opportunity is gone. Maybe obvious signifiers of femininity draw more immediate attention and that just bumps your chances right up.

Obviously this only makes sense for passing comments. In bars and clubs she's always had a load of attention but it's mostly been respectful. I remember some kid slapping her on the arse in a rave once but otherwise she's had a pretty peaceful life in that respect.

When I was about 18 I had a friend who could be described much as OP described herself and she used to get a ton of shit. But people used to shout homophobic abuse at her randomly rather than it be sexual type comments or unwanted advances

it's like they thought I'd purposefully chosen that body to get their attention

Yes! Men do actually think like this. When I was younger I was getting stressed by all the sexual attention at work, and my male friend/colleague suggested a breast reduction. Surgery! My choice, right?