Do 'boyish'-looking girls get harrassed less than other women?

[Echobelly]

Wanted to ask about a theory of mine, as I've wondered about this before. I don't seem to have experienced anything like as much harrassment or worse than most other women - something I've very glad of. I totally believe it is as bad as other women say it is, btw, but I do wonder if I came in for less grief as I was small, flat chested and, during my teens and 20s, the most 'harrassable' ages i suppose, I had cropped short hair. I think maybe I just didn't register on the radar of the sort of bloke who likes to harrass or grope women so they left me alone.

I'm quite prepared that dozens of similar women will report yes, they were harrassed plenty, just interested to find out people's experiences and I need a largish sample to actually look into this!

I had long hair as a teenager (didn't cut it short till university), and was reasonably attractive I suppose at that age, but mainly wore trousers, never wore makeup, and I am 5'11''. I can't remember any street harassment.

Unless you count a boy from another school following me down an alley and asking for my number and for me to go out with him and being very persistent. But at the time I felt like that was him making fun of me in some way (maybe put up to it by people at my school), rather than being serious. Though I could have been wrong, as I don't have any evidence for my theory.

So I have always been fairly invisible too. Didn't stop me being abused by two long-term partners though.

I honestly have to say, in terms of walking home etc out and about, I've never been harassed.

Touch wood.

Oh and I have average sized breasts.

But I am autistic, and I do wonder if my manner makes me invisible in that way. Same reason security guards in shops get suspicious of me; they pick up that I am not quite like other people and assume I am doing something wrong.

In my experience the harassment is different depending on your looks/size. I have never been particularly easy on the eye and to be honest found it flattering if I was ever catcalled! Even more now I’m a 32 yr old mum of 3. My attractive friends have had far worse experiences than me. On the other end of the scale SOME men find it acceptable to point out women’s size/flaws to them in a negative manner which I haven’t experienced from women.

re the tall/short thing. I suspect shorter women are seen as an easy target, taller women as a challenge (or an affront to their masculinity in some way). So you cant win.

@LexMitior

I think harassment does have something to do with vulnerability. I had a very nasty time after my mother died, and during that time naturally felt sad and depressed. I was vulnerable. I was very thin too.

During that time whenever I went out, I attracted the attentions of horrible men. Until then literally men had always been pretty decent. But interestingly a very different sort of man presented himself when I looked vulnerable.

Yes, it is like certain people have a superpower that lets them spot vulnerability. Depressing. @tabernacles I wonder if without realising it you were giving off confident/dont fuck with me vibes?

I'm not boyish looking or ugly but have hardly ever been harassed in my life even when I was younger, pretty and slim. I'm 50 now so completely invisible.

I've got a bit of a scowly face though and have put it down to that.

I have been harassed a few times. I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't think it was about appearance/looks but it was always when I was demonstrably making an effort with my appearance- high heels, posh dress etc. Maybe because those sorts of clothes make you quite vulnerable - you aren't exactly dressed to run away or fight back if it came to it.

I never once got harassed when dress in form fitting sportswear, not even in my early 20s when I was pretty fit and in shape with long blonde hair etc.

I reckon there’s a subconscious weighing up that happens in men who harass women.

It’s partly an attention thing - they crave your attention whether it’s positive or negative attention. It helps them feel powerful. If you’re good looking or have big breasts, they feel even better because they have power over a woman who they perceive to be attractive to other men. They want to impress other men.

But if you look as though you will cause trouble for them, they generally leave you alone.

I’m plain and currently a size 16-18 and when I have been this size since I was a teenager I have always been invisible to men. I had about 10 years when I was a size 10 and I was still invisible. I also mean this in regards to both harassment and dating.

Due to almost constant bullying from my parents about my weight as a teenager I consciously tried to make myself invisible to others so they wouldn’t notice me, and therefore my weight. It seems to have worked because in my experience, I think in most instances looks do count to a degree.

In my experience if I tried to make myself look attractive and feminine (dress, heels, make up etc) it attracted one type of unwanted attention, if I didn't (jeans, short hair, Docs, no make up - my normal look!) it attracts an equally unwanted but equally unpleasant type of attention.
You can't win.

I find this fascinating, particularly the number of posters who have not been troubled to much.

I'm not pretty, but have fairly striking features. Average height, small breasts. But I have had endless incidents over the years.

Comments from cars, workmen, sexual assults at work, groped in swimming pools, on dance floors, stalked at University, followed on public transport, one scary attempted rape (I think...) after I had lunch with a "friend...

I'm not smiley, I scowl and frown a lot, I'm quite a confident person, don't think I look vulnerable, but it still happens.

I no longer get the so-called "compliments", but the the "are you a boy or a girl" thing never fucking stops, and it's so obviously disingenuous. I mean, would you really be asking me that if you thought I was a man? And yes, the lesbophobic abuse and being shouted at and shoved - does that count as harassment too?

@uglyswan

I no longer get the so-called "compliments", but the the "are you a boy or a girl" thing never fucking stops, and it's so obviously disingenuous. I mean, would you really be asking me that if you thought I was a man? And yes, the lesbophobic abuse and being shouted at and shoved - does that count as harassment too?

This, yes - as a six footer with short hair, it drives me up the wall.

I always said I've had less threatening behaviour from men due my height. Still got leers and comments and cat calls etc, as I had the curves but I'm sure my size deterred some men who'd have been more pushy otherwise. There's nothing like standing full height and glaring down at a man (that and reaching high shelves are some conciliation for the shoe size and trouble buying trousers). I've always been grateful for that and it certainly made me feel less vulnerable when out on my own at night.

I can't remember a time since puberty that I've not been harassed by men in an array of situations/environments. I've got a "Marilyn Monroe" body type and my face is quite pretty (that is so cringe to write but relevant in this context!)

My friends/family are always horrified at the reaction I get from men and say that it is disproportionate in comparison to the attention they receive

I'm not sure why men do it, it's really really vile to be on the receiving end of

Afraid I'm not convinced, OP. I'm small, slim and pretty, with longish blonde hair - even at the grand old age of nearly 50 - and I have on the whole used this combination to my advantage far more than I have suffered as a result of it. I also look quite young, which used to piss me off immensely when I was 25 and still being asked for ID in Tesco.

I did spend my entire school life at a girls' school, and I'm not sure I ever spoke to a man other than my dad until I went to university (I was quite happy at home with dogs, ponies etc and never went out, so perhaps avoided the kinds of lechy people who might go to clubs and so on).

People probably did make remarks when I was at university, but I would have just have treated them with blank disdain.

I was very boyish until my early to mid 20s. But identifiable as a women up close. It was handy when I saw a group of lairy men walking towards me, I would put my hood up and pass for a young boy. However, the type of men who harass women do it to any women who don't conform to their idea of what a woman should be like. The women they find attractive, they harass for being sexually unavailable to them. The women they don't, they harass for being butch/boyish/a lezzer/ not smiling enough. Its just aggression and misogyny with a slightly different flavour.

I did get a bit of 'Are you a boy or a girl?' in my teens (from girls as much as boys) which made me laugh - as far as I was concerned the fact I'd chosen to look that way ought to have signified I wasn't the sort of girl to be upset by people thinking I looked like a boy, so I don't know whay they'd think those comments would get to me. DD, who also chose to have cropped hair at a similar age to when I first had it (8) commented exactly the same - she wasn't in the least bit bothered about someone saying she looked like a boy.

I lived (and still do mostly) in combat trousers, t-shirts and boots or walking shoes and until I had DC I didn't really have much in the chest area.

I still got groped in crowded pubs where I'm pretty sure the men doing it couldn't see anything about me other than a vaguely female height and shape. I don't think they cared what I looked like, it was just opportunistic perverts.

@TremoloGreen

I was very boyish until my early to mid 20s. But identifiable as a women up close. It was handy when I saw a group of lairy men walking towards me, I would put my hood up and pass for a young boy. However, the type of men who harass women do it to any women who don't conform to their idea of what a woman should be like. The women they find attractive, they harass for being sexually unavailable to them. The women they don't, they harass for being butch/boyish/a lezzer/ not smiling enough. Its just aggression and misogyny with a slightly different flavour.

I think this is right -- there's something for every woman really. Equally insulting opportunities.

Maybe it is something about the way you carry or present yourself, or maybe it's just luck.

I used to get quite a lot of hassle until I spoke. Am blonde, short, was very young looking until about thirty and have big boobs and had very small waist. Not mega pretty but smiley so I think men who didn’t know me would assume I was a type.

I have been harassed and sexually assaulted more times than I can count throughout my 20s. I have not noticed that changing my appearance has changed it. I have conducted this experiment myself and was assaulted when I was my most outwardly ‘boyish’. For example, I was grabbed by the vagina in kings cross underground station with 100s of witnesses a couple of years ago. My haircut was like a boys, and I was wearing trousers, dr martens and a polo shirt. Police did nothing of course despite me reporting and it being on cctv. So I would say, no. Presenting as more boyish didn’t personally change things for me.

A bit of all of the above @TotorosFurryBehind

Thinking of the 'carry yourself' thing - I have always walked with a slight limp due to a hip issue, it's not that noticable, but I do think it makes me rather ungraceful - I wonder if that somehow detracted from the degree of 'femininity' I projected as well?