Do 'boyish'-looking girls get harrassed less than other women?

[Echobelly]

Wanted to ask about a theory of mine, as I've wondered about this before. I don't seem to have experienced anything like as much harrassment or worse than most other women - something I've very glad of. I totally believe it is as bad as other women say it is, btw, but I do wonder if I came in for less grief as I was small, flat chested and, during my teens and 20s, the most 'harrassable' ages i suppose, I had cropped short hair. I think maybe I just didn't register on the radar of the sort of bloke who likes to harrass or grope women so they left me alone.

I'm quite prepared that dozens of similar women will report yes, they were harrassed plenty, just interested to find out people's experiences and I need a largish sample to actually look into this!

I think books may be a factor. I'm small chested, and have nearly always been I visible. I mostly wear trousers and t-shirt and no makeup. I can only remember being cancelled a couple of times on my own, and only a handful of times as a group. The last time any random bloke shouted at me in the street was about my fat arse being too big when I was filling the car with petrol, and they were shouting comments at everyone there, men and women.

At times in my youth, I did wonder a bit about what makes me different, but mostly I've been glad, because it means I can walk home alone after a night out and stuff - and because I've had about 3 decades of doing that with no incident, I probably look fairly confident when I am walking along the street.

I pulled up my male colleagues when they were going phwoar over some woman in the office only to be told, "you're one of us, you don't count." Maybe not, but it's still not acceptable to letch over women in the workplace. But it's interesting/puzzling that they accept me at the expense of seeing me as a woman. This has happened in two different workplaces. I don't know what they do/don't see in me, but I suppose it's connected to the low levels of harassment I've experienced.

I am not interested in make up, hair, high heels and live in flats, tshirts and jeans. Mainly black and green. I hate dresses. Hair has been all lengths from buzz cut to waist and all colours of the rainbow.
Comfort and ease are my main incentives.

I have (I am told) a pretty face. I have a big bum and sizable thighs. Weight has gone between 12-20 over the years.

I have big boobs.

The boobs attract A LOT of attention from men. They also seem to invite a lot of criticism/snide comments from women, esp when I wear vest tops in the summer (even though my bras are over the shoulder Boulder holders type and definitely not 'sexy')

It really pisses me off as I can't exactly hide them.

I’m below average in looks, small chested and don’t get catcalled. Never been groped either

However I have been harassed a lot by men for being manly/unattractive instead. Can’t win as a woman 🤷‍♀️

I am quite average in attractiveness. I definitely have friends who are far more beautiful than me, who get less attention. I am 40 now and unfortunately still a magnet for unwanted attention, even when I’m with my kids.

I put it down to my shape. I’m very hourglassy and no matter what I wear it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I have 32G breasts that have been fondled by as many drunk women as they have men.

Anecdotally I do also have long thick hair but I never really have thought about that as a contributing factor, I guess it could be seen as another sign of fertility. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’d chop it all off but it is so thick it would just grow vertically until it gained any length!

Wee, tubby and plain- never have had much (if any) harassment that I can remember.

I’m pretty average but have big breasts. I got harassed in some places more then others. Cities, schools, rougher towns were worse. Countryside and posh smaller towns less of an issue

I'd forgotten about an incident in my teens. My friend and I had gone for a day out to Southampton. We were constantly harassed by a group of foreign sailors. They would not take no for an answer. In the end we gave up and went home it was just so bloody awful.

It's depressing to read just how many misogynistic men there are out there. Why are they being brought up to think that this kind of behaviour is OK?

It’s not so much looks but dress and physique
I have large breasts and blonde hair
I also used to dress as if I was on the pull (I was) so yeah
That said the shit I got when I was in school uniform 🤮

And despite all the things I did , I was never harmed

I still think that more harm comes from the day to day men in our lives

That’s far more pernicious

My appearance has varied a lot over the years from very androgynous to very feminine, no makeup to elaborate goth makeup. I have experienced a lot of street harassment and my appearance has had little to do with it I think. If anything the closer I presented myself as conventionally dressed and stereotypically feminine the less hassle I got (or perhaps they were just less aggressive about it)

I don't think it's to do with boobs necessarily but definitely looks have a lot to do with it. I have a very curvy bum but am slim and I still regularly get whistled and propositioned (I'm 42). I was a fairly pretty teen and what with the bum, I was harassed an awful lot.

My DD has very small boobs but has inherited the bum and she is incredibly beautiful (ofc I'm biased but she has been scouted several times by modelling agencies and people comment on her looks all the time). She gets cat-called from lorries pretty much every day on her walk home from school. She's in Sixth Form now but this was also true when she was in uniform. It's so, so depressing and feels like a punishment for something she has no control over ☹️

My niece is under 5ft, long hair, curvy figure and pretty face. All I can tell you is going out with her is an eye opener to how entitled men feel to say things, follow us, beep and they are so pleased with themselves visibly drooling and smiling.

I am uttering disgusted whenever we go out.

I had cropped short hair for a while. I'm fat and fairly unattractive. Men would either offer to "throw me one" as a favour or call me a lesbian and ask to watch. A couple of times men should shout mean things from their cars as they drove past me. Like a punishment for not being attractive enough. It's very unfeminist of me but I preferred the days when I was younger and used to get chatted up because I was attractive 😂

I've always been a very unattractive woman - not boyish, just unattractive. In my experience, unattractive women get harassed differently - random men calling me 'ugly' and other insults. I've never been hit on by a stranger. I was flashed by a pervert as a teenager, though .

I’m 6ft, athletic build and in my teens / 20s had a pixie crop and often dressed like an ‘indie kid’ (jeans, t shirts, trainers). I honestly don’t think I was ever in that time subject to or feared random street abuse, despite often putting myself in vulnerable situations (staggering home drunk on public transport etc). It’s just not something I thought about at all.

I'm tall, had short hair, so used to get comments about being ugly and the odd shout of "lesbian" from passing cars. My friend was shorter, blonde and curvy. Going out with her was another level, starting from when she was about 11.

Women really cannot win. In muslim countries women are covered up to protect them from the male gaze ( not saying thats right or wrong) but i still hear western men get very offended by the fact that these women are covered up....aggresively so.

@malificent7

Yes that’s true they really can’t stand the idea of women covering up for their religion but then when women are uncovered they objectify them.

I remember being on holiday in Brussels with a friend (who was beautiful). We were late teens and it was years ago. The worst harassment from passing drivers was from the police on more than on occasion! I recall them hanging out of the police car window yelling and whistling at her/us. I was so shocked that they'd do this whilst on duty...

I'm mid 50s, short, plain and overweight. I am now at the age of 'being in the way'. Some men seem to see women like me as not having the right to occupy space. It is acceptable to push me out of the way as whatever they are doing, wherever they are going is far more important than anything I am doing.

That is all about ego.

@Porridgeoat

I’m pretty average but have big breasts. I got harassed in some places more then others. Cities, schools, rougher towns were worse. Countryside and posh smaller towns less of an issue

Yes I wonder if region, and socioeconomic factors come into it.

Have always worn tom boyish clothes, bit alternative looking (goth/grunge) live in DMs. If I dress more feminine I get stared at, whistled, chatted up, catcalled and men tend to walk closer or try and initiate conversations, brush past. I'm 48, and whilst I'm tiny in actual size I'm not and never have been classically pretty. I used to be more friendly and smile. I haven't smiled at a man on the street for years and never make eye contact.

But I think its more about them than us, and I also think it depends on lots of factors around place, urban planning, crowd cover or isolation, socioeconomic factors such as class and the interplay between class and culture, different more misogynist cultures and transient populations, whether its a city or a small "posh" market town, how liberal or cultured the demographic is. Its a sort of perfect storm scenario where how you look or present meets with other factors effecting your chances of meeting misogynist men.

If I drive less than 15miles up the road to go shopping I get catcalls, slowing vehicles, random comments and lots of looks. Here, not so much. In the nearest city its variable and I hate to say it all the unwanted attention hasn't been from white working class men. But in the small town it is.

Where I live is a liberal, middle class hippy posh zone where people are generally at least outwardly playing the "we are so evolved" routine. I'm more likely to be approached to sign a petition or join a vegan guardian reading yoga veg growing liberal feminist nature whispering walk or sign up to knit yak hair brooms!

Very interesting points made here. I'm now 49 and OK looking, I very rarely received 'unwanted attention' anymore but did when I was younger. But I was still flashed recently by a guy wanking in his car. It clearly wasn't directed at me, just at anyone who'd see him. So my guess is, it depends on the type of 'assault' or unwanted attention.

I suppose if whichever woman is at the the wrong place at the wrong time, however she looks, she'll become a victim. But more traditionally attractive and feminine women or girls will get more unwanted attention. You just have to stand at a busy traffic light when secondary school girls just finish school and you'll see just how much cat calling happens.

My sister and I look almost identical, but I've always been harassed, groped, propositioned a lot and she a lot less. She's slimmer than me, more regular features, I'm wonkier, that's the only difference. So maybe it's not looks but the way we behave.

I see your point.
in my early 20s i had cropped hair and looked rather scruffy and wasn't bothered about clothes and image. I didn't get much bother. I was mistakenly called 'son's and 'mate' on many occasions.
I had children in my early 30s. I lost weight, grew and highlighted my hair, spent a fortune on clothes, wore make up and looked and felt great.

Wolf whistles started, men would think they could chat me up. If I said no, thanks,I'm not interested,I'm happy married I was called a stuck up bitch and what the fuck was I doing out anyway(having a drink with my friends) Another favourite insult was why had I left my husband 'babysitting while I was out having fun! This was about 25 years ago.

It changed me. I was always smiling and happy but I learned to put on a resting butch face when a group of men approached.
There you go, altering my behaviour around men so I don't get interrupted by them as I'm going about my day!
Even now at 55 men still hit on me and I am supposed to be grateful!!! Sod that!!!!

I’m tall, have always had short hair, small boobs and often don’t look very “feminine” (e.g. never wear heels). I’ve had very little street/building-site type harassment, but I have had a lot more groping/unwanted attention in bars, on public transport and generally enclosed spaces. I think there’s maybe an element of performance among groups of men so they might be less likely to harass a more “masculine” looking woman in front of their mates, but have a go when alone?

I think rape is different though, rape is about power and anger, and it’s important to know that any woman can be raped, it’s well known to happen to any age and appearance.

Also I seem to divide men I don’t know into those who apparently show me respect and kind of treat me as one of the guys, and those who get very angry if they see me as appropriating their realm, eg by knowing what I’m talking about in a DIY shop, or showing physical strength. My much older neighbour, a kind of old-school gentlemanly chauvinist, is absolutely fascinated that I’ll lug a big flatpack up to my flat, or own and use a drill instead of getting a man in. He’s not aggressive, it just blows his mind, but some men do get aggressive about that kind of thing.

It’s a difficult area to discuss as we’re not responsible for men’s behaviour and shouldn’t have to think about what “makes it happen” - but it’s interesting to ponder the processes that they go through.