Census I don't belong.

[Devlesko]

I'm equally sadened and angered.
Every other ethnicity covered as far as I know, all other travelling groups rightly so. Roma who are here from Eastern Europe.

We have been told by campaigners to stand up and be counted so that we can access healthcare and schools.
Now we are white other, not a mention.

It's not just semantics we are all different ethnicities with separate cultures, the only similarity is we travel, or try to. Our DNA is distinctive to our ethnicity Irish and Romany are completely different.

What is a gypsy? What ethnicity? It doesn't exist. But more recently those who are interested and thank you, know that Romany originate from India, around 1,500 years ago and have been in the UK for 500 years.
During which time we have been enslaved, tortured, murdered, transported, hated by society and persecuted by Kings and Governments.

I'm sick of the back door laws to erode if not annilate our culture. It just isn't fair. Society tars us all with the same brush, but you can ask any health visitor who has ever visited how family orientated we are and spotlessley clean.

Gypsy is a slur for American Romany and Europeans. But it's that bad in the UK where we face racism daily that it's hardly worth fighting the use of the word "gypsy"

I'm writing this because I know whilst theres a few on here with Romany links, Mumsnet is a new audience and apart from me very few would venture. That is nothing personal, just a different culture.

So when you see us being refused service in a pub, restaurant, wedding reception venue, don't spit at us, laugh, call us names, we are human.

Yes, i get you Flaxmeadow I fully understand now.
Honestly though don't think for one minute I haven't thought how on earth my great Uncle Creddy lived in an upturned water tank
Or the poor baby that rolled into the yog and died.
Such harrowing stories of hardship, and desperation.

I’m really sorry, OP. It must be horrible to be part of a small minority which is misunderstood and not correctly represented.

It may have been a mistake by ONS who prepare the census. The best thing you can probably do is write to your local MP and write to ONS asking for Roma to be included next time.

Maybe they just mistakenly thought Roma and Romany are the same.

It is complex and I understand that it's not always so obvious and even those who campaign didn't see it, nor the charities etc, but it leaves us wide open.
Romany and Roma are very similar and usually I wouldn't bat an eye lid and go with Roma, and actually be pleased it was an option.
However, we really did need the Romany bit on the census.
Whilst it's missing offering the same support as Roma need will be ridiculous for Romany, just not needed at all.
Many are concerned now that classed as gypsies our race won't be recognised either.

The thread has moved on a lot, but in terms of the original post: what do you think that putting Romany on the census would change?

I agree with a lot of your worries about the new laws coming into place, but I can’t see the census changing that. Do you think the government would say “oh, there are actually X many Romany in the UK. We’d estimated that there are Y. We better scrap the bill!”

onlycatandhamster - of course there are billions of people who follow all kinds of practises due to all manner of religious beliefs, but my point was, nobody is born with these practises “in their blood.” In my view, everyone comes into the world as a blank slate and then certain values / beliefs / lifestyles are inflicted on them until they become internalised. But (as an adult) the extent to which you live according to a given religion or way of life is always a choice.

I think sometimes you have to make a value judgement about ways of life that impinge on the human rights of children. For instance, the practise of FGM on children as young as 10 in some parts of the world. I’m sure they would claim this is their culture and nobody else understands and they justify it in terms of certain stories passed down over centuries. But I think most people would take a view on that. What about parts of the world where women can’t show their faces outside - were those people born with such practises “in their blood” too?

Also I don’t think “race” has to determine how people live their lives. That’s a quite depressing outlook.

"Do you think the government would say “oh, there are actually X many Romany in the UK. We’d estimated that there are Y. We better scrap the bill!”"

Knowing how many Romanies there are could be useful for campaigners and all sorts of people working in the field. I can definitely see the value of this for OP.

I'm a Welsh speaker and I'm extremely interested in the Census results for us. It is taken into account in many ways. It unfortunately doesn't allow us to know how many people are learning and not yet fluent and isn't asked of people living in England so they will only be counted if they write it in as main language.

@inthecathouse

Also I don’t think “race” has to determine how people live their lives. That’s a quite depressing outlook.

I think so too, but if you want the culture within your race to determine how you lead your life, then you shouldn't be scared of it becoming criminalised. There is nothing within our culture that harms anyone else, including our children

Gwenhwfar

I'm so glad you get it. I don't think I count but I'm learning an extinct Welsh language. I know my dh and family say what's the point, but there you go.
My maternal side is Welsh Romany, my great and gr gr aunts were fortune tellers on Barry Island. I'm a direct descendant of Abram Wood, Roberts, Ingrams and Prices. Not sure if you recognise those names.
Pre covid we spent so much time in Wales as most of our work in summer is in Wales.

My partner isn't 'White British' and had to use the 'other' and self-define.

She realises that there cannot be a massive list with everyone's ethnic variation on it.

@VickyEadieofThigh

My partner isn't 'White British' and had to use the 'other' and self-define.

She realises that there cannot be a massive list with everyone's ethnic variation on it.

As I've said countless times, it wouldn't bother Romany people if our way of life wasn't about to become criminalised. Maybe your partner would feel the same. It has never really bothered us before, a bit naffed that no travellers had a section, but now, at least it's there and I appreciate that. However, as explained "gypsy" isn't a race and offers us no protection.

" I'm a direct descendant of Abram Wood, Roberts, Ingrams and Prices. Not sure if you recognise those names."

Abram Wood is probably the most famous Welsh Romany ever so I definitely recognise his name.Patriarch of a large Romany family. Roberts and Price are very common names among the Welsh in general and I didn't know about Ingrams.
Are you learning Kale?

@VickyEadieofThigh

My partner isn't 'White British' and had to use the 'other' and self-define.

She realises that there cannot be a massive list with everyone's ethnic variation on it.

Sure, but Romany could be on it.

@Gwenhwyfar

" I'm a direct descendant of Abram Wood, Roberts, Ingrams and Prices. Not sure if you recognise those names."

Abram Wood is probably the most famous Welsh Romany ever so I definitely recognise his name.Patriarch of a large Romany family. Roberts and Price are very common names among the Welsh in general and I didn't know about Ingrams.
Are you learning Kale?

Yes, but not doing very well. It's from the Roberts heritage fund, but it's hard going and from an Australian accent, too. So I don't know how words are pronounced by a Welsh person. Add to this I'm a slow dyslexic, languages are harder to learn as you get older, and he speaks at 90 miles an hour, I'm not doing so well

Good luck OP. (I had heard of John Roberts, the harpist of course).

www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm

I imagine you've seen this, but if not, enjoy. It has been amazing the huge difference the spee of technology has revealed so much, this is still comparitively new, ito evidence of all sorts of things.

Hi, thanks, yes I've seen it before and also came across it yesterday when googling. Thanks.
Are you familiar with Eldra Jarman's book on the Welsh gypsies and also the film called Eldra?

You cannot have representation if you do not contribute to the coffers.

Why should the Government recognise you if you do not financially contribute?

That is my ignorant basic view. Please educate me otherwise. And PLEASE do not slaughter me. I am probably asking a question that loads would like an answer to.

We contribute exactly the same as everyone else.
I pay tax and NI, on my earnings. An NHS employee isn't given a pardon on their tax, nor a Police officer, dinner lady, hairdresser etc.
We pay council tax either on a house or a plot on a site.
The same for utility bills, phone, internet, Tv liscense (if applicable)

I won't slaughter you as it's a huge misconception. Almost as bad as us stealing babies, but you sound so nice.
The sites aren't provided for free at all, and neither should they be. Romany are very proud and whilst I can't speak for everyone claiming benefit is a shame not something to be proud of.
Don't forget we are old fashioned like you were in the 50's, and a man is judged on how well he provides for his family. You'll see babies and children dressed in designer labels for this reason.