AIBU to wonder why men are so angry

[Moanranger]

Having read a Marina Hyde column in the Guardian about being followed & harassed by an angry man, plus my own recent experience with anger from a male stranger, I am asking this.
Where does this male anger come from? Drugs/meth? Steroid use? Just what?
My own recent experience was a road rage incident. I honked my horn at some boy racer (car with spoilers, low slung) speeding on my narrow, windy, busy lane. He screeches to a halt, jumps out of his car, then turns car around & follows me back to my drive, jumps out again & shouts “I know where you live, c**t”
Such anger over nothing, but v similar to Marina’s incident. This is a key issue, huge problem with male rage & toxic masculinity.

Testosterone plays a role probably

I hope you felt able to call the police over the incident you describe OP.

Because it's not 'cool' for men to show vulnerability.

They're not allowed to be sad, worried, anxious, calm, empathetic or any other 'feminine' emotions. When you squeeze any emotion hard enough, it becomes anger.

Which is why we should be raising boys to cry, worry and hug. And stop encouraging anger to form.

Entitlement and fear of losing privilege are two of many reasons. Frustrations with women in their own personal lives that they need to take out on others. Lack of resilience/inability to deal with rejection. And of course, some just bloody enjoy it.

I read the same column. Bloody love Marina at the best of times but her carefully written piece was a marvel in how it summed up the constant drone and threat against women.

Here's my viewpoint for what it's worth:

• A lot of men feel entitled to things and use their interaction as a way of "claiming" women in some way. If a woman rejects him or publicly admonishes him for being wrong, he'll go after her to make sure she doesn't forget him. It's a kind of invasive, horrible, territorial pissing thing.

• Some men get excited by terrifying women. They like fear. I hate even writing that sentence but it's true.

• Some men are cowardly and they go after people where they think the interaction will be one where they guarantee to dominate. So they shout at someone who is potentially physically unlikely to batter them in the street in response

• some of it, bizarrely and horribly, is sexual. Look at the incel movement and their frustration, their need to admonish women who use their right to reject them.

I don’t know. I remember seeing a man attack another man in the street with a hammer.

The attackers son was in the back of the car, aged about 7.

Yes I called the police. They didn’t turn up.

Men can be savage to other men, including their children. That boy looked terrified.

@Lanadelsugarray

Entitlement and fear of losing privilege are two of many reasons. Frustrations with women in their own personal lives that they need to take out on others. Lack of resilience/inability to deal with rejection. And of course, some just bloody enjoy it.

This. Men have privilege and they feel entitled for it to continue.

It's a complex situation, but largely because society normalises violence and aggression in boys from a young age.
There's no given that being male means someone will be violent or aggressive, but some boys grow up seeing their male role models be violent and aggressive,hear violent and unpleasant behaviour dismissed as a child because "boys will be boys", and go through life with the drip feeding that men shouldn't show emotion (because that's associated with being a woman and that's an insult) although anger is apparently an acceptable emotion because it shows you're tough. They will typically socialise with others who have similar upbringing and values so create the norm of toxic masculinity.
They see men in the media behaving appallingly, see victims of male violence get ripped apart, they see violence as a way of achieving social status, and so on.

It's hardly surprising that there is an issue with toxic masculinity and men's mental health.

Testosterone does play a role for sure. As no doubt does the pandemic and the economic woe that has inflicted on people.

I also think a lot of men are unsettled by the fact that women have far more agency and are much more assertive about what they want from men than the kinds of women these men encountered when they were children. And the only language they have to express this feeling is rage.

They grew up with mums who played a more or less traditional role in the family unit and "knew their place" and are now seeing women (rightly) demanding much more from them across a whole range of areas of their life.

The less intelligent ones have a vague feeling they are being got at and criticised but lack the critical skills or empathy to work out why women are angry. They then lash out at us because they feel inadequate about not being able to step up to deliver what we want from them and feel like they are being personally go at, instead of a broader societal issue.

It's a bit like those white people who, when asked to confront the question of institutional racism in society, respond by going on the defensive and saying: "I'm not a racist", without taking the time to think about why black people are justifiably angry at society at large.

Peak sadly, did not manage to get Reg number. I honk occasionally to warn drivers that road is dangerous , never had that reaction, so unprepared to take down number. I would not expect police to respond without that info. Fairly distinctive car, so if I see it again I’ll try to note it.
Incident caused me to put up external cameras pointing at my drive

I’ve had similar happen to me twice OP - I sympathise. One had his girlfriend and child in the car whilst he got out of his car hurling abuse at me (apparently I was driving too slowly!) The other is a guy who lives around the corner from me (he doesn’t know I know where he lives), seems like a doctor or professional type - screaming and ranting at myself and my dd12 whilst filming us - saying it was apparently his ‘right of way’. His rage was terrifying, his eyes were popping out and we were just sat there agog! I didn’t bother going to the police with that one as I did with the first as they did absolutely nothing the first time round.
They don’t care unless one of the bastards physically harms you and even then I doubt it would be an easy process to get them prosecuted.
The gf of the first one looked terrified and I’ve since seen the wife of the 2nd one and she looked really ground down and haggard. I can only imagine what it must be like living with these types of men in private if they are prepared to act like that toward women in public. I just think some men are full of anger and misogyny - I’d bet my life they wouldn’t have acted that way towards a man.

I'm not sure a site primarily used by women is the best place for an accurate answer.

Some of it will be drug use but what fuels the drug use? Low aspirations, high aspirations, culture, "falling in" with the wrong people. And I'm Inc steroids in that. An attempt to push down reality or to do better, go faster, be bigger, be harder.

Mothers who raised their sons to think they own the world meeting daughters raised to believe they have a voice worth hearing?

Emasculation by women who don't want to be protected and provided for?

Learnt behaviour from their Dads /absent Dad's / stereotypes on TV?

Poor opportunities - aren't WC white lads meant to be academically behind everyone else? So anger that they're no longer at the top / poor opportunities in life during drugs etc

Choice - they enjoy the power - because that's what they saw at home, because they feel small in their own lives, poor self esteem.

And a ton of other reasons too

Completely agree. It’s a potent and sometimes deadly mix of unprocessed emotions (stuffing them down) not expressing them, societal expectations of the male mixed with testosterone. Creates an inner monster that can only be calmed and sated through having power and control over others ( often women)

This is a very good question.

As women, I guess we can only speculate about where male rage comes from. Men are dangerous, and I think that's why so few of them will step up if they see a woman being harassed or abused. They know that the man is likely to turn their rage onto them.

Any situation confronting an angry man can turn very very nasty in the blink of an eye.

Men think they can get away with raging at women, because they get away with it all the time. It is rare that anyone will stand up to them.

I think anger management has to be taught from an early age, and should be made mandatory for any man who has been convicted of any offence involving their anger.

@Lanadelsugarray

Entitlement and fear of losing privilege are two of many reasons. Frustrations with women in their own personal lives that they need to take out on others. Lack of resilience/inability to deal with rejection. And of course, some just bloody enjoy it.

A lot of men seem to see women’s rights as taking something away from men rather than giving something to women. They feel that if women get equality, men will lose something in return and it makes them angry.

Also agree about frustrations with women in their own lives. It’s amazing how many of these angry men have gone through a divorce or a girlfriend has split up with them and they project all their anger at her onto all women.

A lot of men seem to see women’s rights as taking something away from men rather than giving something to women. They feel that if women get equality, men will lose something in return and it makes them angry.

This.

Some men are cowardly and they go after people where they think the interaction will be one where they guarantee to dominate. So they shout at someone who is potentially physically unlikely to batter them in the street in response.

This, in spades. They know that if they square up to another man or abuse him, they’re likely to get a smack in the mouth, but if they do it to a woman, she will almost always back down.

If you suppress negative emotions for long enough, they're going to come out as anger.

I read so many things online (both on here and on other sites) where boys are laughed at for crying - they're called crybabies, or told "big boys don't cry". As they go into their teen years it becomes "oh, just man up".

Showing vulnerability is considering weak, and men who are seen to be weak are, sadly, targets for male aggression.

They have residual anger towards their mothers and take it out on women?
I say this because I never really encountered much male rage as a young woman. Creepiness, yes. Lots. But it was only getting to my late 30s that a lot of men stopped being either really "nice" and accommodating towards me, or suggestively flirty, and started looking at me with cold, hard, contempt.
It still shocks me how dismissive and irritated a lot of men are by middle aged women tbh, and sometimes this contempt can turn (when they think they can get away with it) to rage.
I dread to think what it will be like when I am deemed totally unfuckable (still in my 40s).

So, yeah, TL/DR: when they no longer are attracted to you, you become like a mother figure and for a lot of men that= hate.

Evolutionary biology.

A certain amount of testosterone related agression was advantageous to our male ancestors. It enabled them to compete for resources and to physically protect their families. Our female ancestors, in turn, were attracted to men who were able to provide protection and resources for them and their children. Therefore there was strong evolutionary pressure to favour such attributes in men.

Unfortunately, while these characteristics might have been beneficial back in the day, they can cause problems in 21st century societies where the roles of men & women are much less clearly demarcated.

Women get angry too, but they tend to internalise it. Men externalise it. I dont know if that is partly socialisation, partly practical (there are times I would have loved to start screaming and shouting my head of at a man but that would either lead to me being laughed at or, worst case scenario, punched)*. Men tend to be bigger so can normally find someone to take their anger out on. Over time it becomes habit.

*I dont want to derail the conversation into "Wimmin bad too" but maybe that is similar to the phenomenon of some white women being awful to black women in public. I can honestly say I haven't done this myself, but I have had enough black friends tell me about it to know it is a thing. So again, maybe the simplest answer is Because They Can.

@HepzibahGreen

They have residual anger towards their mothers and take it out on women? I say this because I never really encountered much male rage as a young woman. Creepiness, yes. Lots. But it was only getting to my late 30s that a lot of men stopped being either really "nice" and accommodating towards me, or suggestively flirty, and started looking at me with cold, hard, contempt. It still shocks me how dismissive and irritated a lot of men are by middle aged women tbh, and sometimes this contempt can turn (when they think they can get away with it) to rage. I dread to think what it will be like when I am deemed totally unfuckable (still in my 40s).

So, yeah, TL/DR: when they no longer are attracted to you, you become like a mother figure and for a lot of men that= hate.

And also because they no longer see you as someone whom they might have a chance of sleeping with? Which is really creepy, since you then find yourself wondering if all of the "nice" men you met in the past were only hiding their hatred/contempt on the offchance they might get a shag.

@HepzibahGreen

They have residual anger towards their mothers and take it out on women? I say this because I never really encountered much male rage as a young woman. Creepiness, yes. Lots. But it was only getting to my late 30s that a lot of men stopped being either really "nice" and accommodating towards me, or suggestively flirty, and started looking at me with cold, hard, contempt. It still shocks me how dismissive and irritated a lot of men are by middle aged women tbh, and sometimes this contempt can turn (when they think they can get away with it) to rage. I dread to think what it will be like when I am deemed totally unfuckable (still in my 40s).

So, yeah, TL/DR: when they no longer are attracted to you, you become like a mother figure and for a lot of men that= hate.

This is a really interesting point: I think a lot of men's relationship with women is filtered through their relationship with their mother. Beyond the age where a woman is considered an obvious sexual target, her value will be very much determined by how much the man was brought up to consider women's intrinsic value.

If you had a strong mother as a role model and a good relationship you are likely to be able to consider a woman who no longer has an intrinsic sexual value as another human being with valid feelings and opinion. If your mum was basically someone who gave the impression of having been put on the earth to service her husband and children you are likely to be riled at the prospect of any woman defying this stereotype.

My theory is that historically, men have gone to war to fight and all that aggression was channelled into killing your enemy but we don’t have wars on the same scale any more.