AIBU to wonder why men are so angry

[Moanranger]

Having read a Marina Hyde column in the Guardian about being followed & harassed by an angry man, plus my own recent experience with anger from a male stranger, I am asking this.
Where does this male anger come from? Drugs/meth? Steroid use? Just what?
My own recent experience was a road rage incident. I honked my horn at some boy racer (car with spoilers, low slung) speeding on my narrow, windy, busy lane. He screeches to a halt, jumps out of his car, then turns car around & follows me back to my drive, jumps out again & shouts “I know where you live, c**t”
Such anger over nothing, but v similar to Marina’s incident. This is a key issue, huge problem with male rage & toxic masculinity.

Must be some studies on it.

There's many. I was going to share some links but I didn't want to be a science geek.

Interestingly, my DP grew up in a single parent family and he has one of the most balanced and equal views of women of many men I’ve ever met.

Mine too. He never knew his Dad.

Pumper so whilst these men are working through their issues caused by a toxic upbringing what happens to existing children? Do they stay there letting the pattern repeat itself with only a passive mother to keep them safe?
Sorry but from what I'm seeing it hasn't worked so far.

@LucieStar

Interestingly, the ones who showed emotion in the room with me (tears etc), would make sure there was no trace of this emotion before leaving the room to go back out to their male peers on the wing. They'd rather stick their first through a wall than let other men see them cry. Working with female offenders was entirely different- they'd cry on each other's shoulders all the time. It's very telling.

They knew they would be victimised for showing emotion to other men. Their lives had told them no sympathy or kindness, but mockery, destructive comments, and violence.

Feelings and emotion become weakness and "female".

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

Pumper so whilst these men are working through their issues caused by a toxic upbringing what happens to existing children? Do they stay there letting the pattern repeat itself with only a passive mother to keep them safe? Sorry but from what I'm seeing it hasn't worked so far.

You’re right - it absolutely hasn’t worked so far. So women, in the end, can’t keep themselves and their children safe.

So now what? Time for men to step up.

@Firstbellini

It is entitlement.

Men treat women the way customers treat people in services jobs.

They think they can speak to you however they like and respond with utter rage if you don’t completely capitulate to them.

(Not all men. Not all customers)

Yes! I've said this for a long time regarding customers, both men and women, behaving like that. I've often said that someone wouldn't speak to me that way if it were any other scenario, they'd be worried about concequences, but they're not worried because the staff are automatically seen as being in a weaker position and the aggressor is protected because the victim wants to protect their job, and knows the customer is far more likely to be believed than they are. There's also an acceptance that anger, shouting and aggression are the way to respond to things going wrong. And That there's very little the staff can do to bring concequences.
That carries through to male aggression, targeting those weaker than themselves as there are little or no concequences immediately, and little or no concequences socially either, even if the weaker person is believed.

*They knew they would be victimised for showing emotion to other men. Their lives had told them no sympathy or kindness, but mockery, destructive comments, and violence.

Feelings and emotion become weakness and "female".*

Yes. This manifests as the classic "male bravado" we see so often.

Bold fail!

Share away @LucieStar I’ve been having this conversation as to why men are more likely to be serial killers etc for years.

I think things like general respect is more of a nurture thing and I think we could stamp out a lot of that especially if men were taking an active roll. The other stuff is a whole different ballgame.

Research ‘incels’!

With my DH I meant to say :-)

@LucieStar - my take on this is this dynamic is, to a greater or lesser extent, in all nuclear families which are heterosexual.

On female and feeling, conversely, I think the female offender can often be a person with very little sense of self. She is waiting for a command, most often from a man who will meet her needs. Often then children result who are further imprinted. Intense feeling leading to a lack of self preservation of yourself and your child is very destructive. Again, a secure mature woman will not need a man in that way.

@Twintub

Share away *@LucieStar* I’ve been having this conversation as to why men are more likely to be serial killers etc for years.

I think things like general respect is more of a nurture thing and I think we could stamp out a lot of that especially if men were taking an active roll. The other stuff is a whole different ballgame.

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/whyweeshouldhelppboystooembraceallltheir_feelings

This is quite an interesting discussion around gender differences in emotional development and expression that I referred to earlier. Some of the links to research is dated but the points are still relevant. I'll try to find to some more up to date academic research if you're interested. It's such a huge field, it's hard to narrow down to just a few studies! Male violence is probably the most studied of all topic areas within forensic psychology.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

Have a look at the relationship boards and see the type of homes kids are being raised in. And the posters who make repeated excuses for staying....... I can see those kids futures mapped out already. The boys bully to get what they want and have massive boudery issues and the girls either go the same way or attach themselves to abusive men because that's all they know.

The future needs to change..... and parents (( OK, women)) need to wake up and get their priorities straight.

The reasons why women stay in an abusive relationship are very complex. It's very rarely as easy as walking away.

I'd agree the stakes are so much higher when there are kids involved but fit men like this their kids are often another tool to wield control.

So yep the root of this is ... yep, a man.

@LucieStar fab thank you

@Airyfairymarybeary

Research ‘incels’!

And The Gift of Fear is an excellent book.

It’s going to be interesting reading as my fairly evolved DH will still say real men don’t need gloves and other similar seemingly minor comments but they probably do add up.

[quote LexMitior]@LucieStar - my take on this is this dynamic is, to a greater or lesser extent, in all nuclear families which are heterosexual.

On female and feeling, conversely, I think the female offender can often be a person with very little sense of self. She is waiting for a command, most often from a man who will meet her needs. Often then children result who are further imprinted. Intense feeling leading to a lack of self preservation of yourself and your child is very destructive. Again, a secure mature woman will not need a man in that way.[/quote]

It's a good point.

In my experience both male and female offenders typically have a poorly defined sense of self when you dig beneath the exterior. What differs is the expression of this. Men often direct difficult emotions outwardly in an aggressive manner towards others. Women (typically not always) will direct difficult emotions inwardly (hence far higher levels of self injury in female offender populations; while far higher levels of violence towards others in male populations).

I'm generalising here, there are huge variations and shades of grey obviously. And I'm only basing my views just on offending populations - not the general population.

Many men are taught as boys that violence or aggression is glamorous and manly. Think of films and TV - action films, superheroes, mobsters, cowboys, CIA agents, spies, even Home Alone... all through violence every time.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ann-Kring/publication/232459729Genderr_andanger/links/5d1cfdec458515c11c0f6bd8/Gender-and-anger.pdf?origin=publicationn_detail

A few years old, but this is an interesting take on how men and women differ in their experiences and expression of anger. Quite a long article though!

Ok promise I'll stop being a geek now.

Unfortunately the more women fight back the more aggression steps up

I think those men that would have got away with a cheeky pinch on the bum now realise they can’t so become more aggressive

@OhWhyNot

Unfortunately the more women fight back the more aggression steps up

I think those men that would have got away with a cheeky pinch on the bum now realise they can’t so become more aggressive

Please don't perpetuate the myth that some women cannot fight back.

I fought the man who flashed at me and then tried to drag me down a narrow path. I think he probably ended up quite bruised and battered. I broke a fingernail and was able to do my triathlon the next morning, before calling the police. Admittedly, I'm very strong and muscular but my reactions are quick too.

Thanks @LucieStar

Men are socialized to believe they are dominant.

I've had two experiences of such male aggression in the past week:

First was a male driver yelling about waiting in stationary traffic (waiting for a blocked way to clear) who then drove off in a huff and crashed into another vehicle as he went
Second was a man who chose to queue jump in front of me in the local small supermarket - despite all other queuers and employees in there being male. I loudly called him out and he began with aggressively verbally assaulting me with sexually explicit language.
As a mother of girls and resident of South London I'm so fucking depressed at the moment.