AIBU to wonder why men are so angry

[Moanranger]

Having read a Marina Hyde column in the Guardian about being followed & harassed by an angry man, plus my own recent experience with anger from a male stranger, I am asking this.
Where does this male anger come from? Drugs/meth? Steroid use? Just what?
My own recent experience was a road rage incident. I honked my horn at some boy racer (car with spoilers, low slung) speeding on my narrow, windy, busy lane. He screeches to a halt, jumps out of his car, then turns car around & follows me back to my drive, jumps out again & shouts “I know where you live, c**t”
Such anger over nothing, but v similar to Marina’s incident. This is a key issue, huge problem with male rage & toxic masculinity.

Yes,I often think about the issues of the male anger syndrome. I guess
I think about it,with being an oldie here,and can compare the differences in men and youths behaviours now, to how most behaved years ago.

There seemed to be no massive men anger issues within most men years ago. Obviously most people will get angry at times,for any old reasons, But now, anger issues have sky rocketed,and that sometimes leads to nastiness,and vicious behaviour.

In one respect, I think that some men have been affected by the women of today, , the women who are successful in life, the women who can speak up for themselves, the women who make their own rules and all as such.. Some don't need a man,,who maybe a sad angry type, or not done much with his life. So some men may be aggrieved about women who are much smarter then they are.

I know a few men, who are extremely jealous,and even angry,because their wives /partners are much more successful in their careers,more popular, and earn much more money. This may mean, that some partners will split up, if they can't hack all this.Then the men will be more angrier than ever!

I wasn’t perpetrating the myth sorry it looked that way

Fighting back wasn’t meant physically it was meant as how we are fighting back in how we are treated generally and from sexism and aggression. Those men that could get away with sexually assaulting women (and girls) in what was seen as a bit of fun no longer can so they have I believe become more aggressive because they feel it’s their right to touch us when they want

I was told by police it wasn’t worth pressing charges (even though I was concussed) as my ex had scratches all over his chest and face

@OhWhyNot

I wasn’t perpetrating the myth sorry it looked that way

Fighting back wasn’t meant physically it was meant as how we are fighting back in how we are treated generally and from sexism and aggression. Those men that could get away with sexually assaulting women (and girls) in what was seen as a bit of fun no longer can so they have I believe become more aggressive because they feel it’s their right to touch us when they want

I was told by police it wasn’t worth pressing charges (even though I was concussed) as my ex had scratches all over his chest and face

I'm sorry to hear that, and I know the police can be unsupportive and bullying at times.

We need to stand up against this. Thank goodness people are at least talking about it now!

Have thought about it more...and while I stand by my "mother" theory, I think it's broader than that, while being part of the same idea.
It's absolutely NOT about testosterone, or caveman fighting instinct, the reason men are so angry specifically with women.
It's this: For the last 2000 + years women have been characterised and treated as the lesser sex. We have been chattel; powerless, voiceless and weak. So, even weak, poor, un-influential men, in all walks of life, have had power over something. Us.
In the last 50 or so years we have started to have a voice, to have power, to have decent jobs and some influence. So, now these men who were already insecure, already feeling like they had no power, don't even have power over the lesser humans.
Because, think about it. Women were genuinely regarded, for years and years and years, as barely human. If we got divorced we couldn't keep out kids, we couldn't buy property, or keep working after marriage, or vote, or go anywhere alone. We couldn't ever be the boss (or rarely), we had no reproductive agency, rape in marriage was legal, we had nowhere to go and were often in grave trouble if we didn't have a man.
The world has changed, and some men just can't handle that. What we have gained, they feel as something that has been taken from them. By us. That's the reason, I am absolutely sure.

But it absolutely will be @hez but with centuries of stuff being thrown in for good measure. So you are not wrong but there’s so many factors starting from an evolutionary perspective.

Just off the top of my head as I couldn’t believe it but have you seen ducks mate basically can be gang rape. So there is something there from way back but of course civilisation curbs our baser desires in the main .

I do wonder how many strides a person who aggressively pursues his road rage victim is from becoming another Levi Bellfield?

Perhaps one of the issues with growing up in an aggressive household is that it creates two sorts of people: aggressors & victims. A child will see the aggressor as strong and the victim as weak. As a child they may feel themselves to be weak and the only way to become strong is to take on the role of aggressor.

@GnomeDePlume

I do wonder how many strides a person who aggressively pursues his road rage victim is from becoming another Levi Bellfield?

Perhaps one of the issues with growing up in an aggressive household is that it creates two sorts of people: aggressors & victims. A child will see the aggressor as strong and the victim as weak. As a child they may feel themselves to be weak and the only way to become strong is to take on the role of aggressor.

And don't forget the child in that household is always the victim. That's never a good starting point for emotional development.

GreenlandTheMovie sorry to read what you went through

it’s makes me so angry and sad that our grandmothers and their grandmothers didn’t have a voice that they really had to just shut up and put up we do have a voice and a platform now

It’s testosterone and entitlement. Too many men brought up to see women as objects, not human beings to be respected.

When we’re young they view us as sex objects to use and intimidate. When we’re older we become invisible, and when we’re elderly we’re just laughed at.

I’m 35 and enjoying the fact that if I go out now with no makeup on in my shabby coat I’m pretty invisible. I shouldn’t have to feel this way.

Too many men are complete bastards, and dangerous to boot.

@Twintub

But it absolutely will be *@hez* but with centuries of stuff being thrown in for good measure. So you are not wrong but there’s so many factors starting from an evolutionary perspective.

Just off the top of my head as I couldn’t believe it but have you seen ducks mate basically can be gang rape. So there is something there from way back but of course civilisation curbs our baser desires in the main .

There is a theory that the shape of the human penis and the long (compared to other mammals) time from penetration to ejaculation evolved so that another man's semen could be cleared out of the vagina to be replaced by that man's.

Which indicates that for our very distant ancestors, the 'gang bang' must have been pretty common.

I think it’s much more likely that women were deceptive to males. A man has very little way of knowing a child is his.

@TalbotAMan

babbaloushka

It's a simple blood test, though you have to persuade a GP to do it. Ideally it has to be done before 10am as testosterone levels change over 24 hours and are highest in the morning.

It's once they find that your natural production has tanked and put you on injections where the level slowly drops over 12 weeks (or 11 in my case) that you find out that, no, testosterone doesn't make you aggressive. I find I'm more likely to be angry (like now) when my levels are low at the end (10 weeks) than when they're high at the beginning. I need more self-control now to stop me smashing the router because it keeps causing problems.

Why do you have low testosterone, was it as a result of TC?

@TalbotAMan oh never heard that will google

@LexMitior

I think it’s much more likely that women were deceptive to males. A man has very little way of knowing a child is his.

🙄

Teens look at porn possibly daily.
before Covid many men made trips to Thailand etc
I expect they separate their DMs from the women they see but over time I'm sure that these men will build up a lack of respect for women (those they don't actually know personally).

They're not called out on it enough - especially by their peers. They copy what there fathers/male role models did in formative years. It's culturally (still) seen as acceptable.

Nature and nurture

Part is testosterone
Part is our culture and history

It’s such a huge huge issue I almost don’t know where we start

jennietheonionslayer

The underlying cause was never diagnosed; the endocrinologists' view was that as long as they had eliminated the possibility of cancer, it made no difference to the treatment. From hormones, I had a pattern roughly equivalent to menopause with high FSH and raised LH, showing that my testicles basically weren't working. I suspect I may have something like klinefelter, (though classic klinefelter produces infertility but I have DC), but DW doesn't like the idea of me having it so i haven't been tested.

Twintub

There's a reasonable article on wikipedia, but be warned it is copiously illustrated with photographs of masculinity in all its states as it were (if that bothers you).

@LexMitior

I think it’s much more likely that women were deceptive to males. A man has very little way of knowing a child is his.

One theory is that oppression of women started when people started farming. Suddenly people had valuable property which they wanted to pass onto their children, so it was now important that men were certain who their children were.

@TalbotAMan

jennietheonionslayer

The underlying cause was never diagnosed; the endocrinologists' view was that as long as they had eliminated the possibility of cancer, it made no difference to the treatment. From hormones, I had a pattern roughly equivalent to menopause with high FSH and raised LH, showing that my testicles basically weren't working. I suspect I may have something like klinefelter, (though classic klinefelter produces infertility but I have DC), but DW doesn't like the idea of me having it so i haven't been tested.

If you had Klinefekter syndrome (or Turner syndrome) you would be obviously physically disabled and unable to function in a work or social setting to the degree that you do.

5-ARD syndrome sounds more likely (lack of ability to utilise the male sex hormones). Presumably you have male secondary sexual characteristics which developed on puberty, so it is not very severe.

I was very interested in the comment a few pages back that, iirc, the less language a man had the more angry he would become because he couldn’t express his feelings in words. I saw a very clear parallel with toddlers and tantrums.

Next point - when DS was 10, he was standing outside at school crying. One of the other boys taunted him but two of his friends (also boys) ticked off the taunter saying that it was DS’ grandfather’s funeral that day (we thought he was too young to go) and no wonder he was crying. That was just lovely (the reactions, obviously, not the crying!).

So DS and his friends had clearly learnt that crying didn’t emasculate them. He is now, possibly coincidentally, in one of the caring professions. We never told him not to cry

I wish it was just drugs!

@Nocaloriesinchocolate

I was very interested in the comment a few pages back that, iirc, the less language a man had the more angry he would become because he couldn’t express his feelings in words. I saw a very clear parallel with toddlers and tantrums.

Next point - when DS was 10, he was standing outside at school crying. One of the other boys taunted him but two of his friends (also boys) ticked off the taunter saying that it was DS’ grandfather’s funeral that day (we thought he was too young to go) and no wonder he was crying. That was just lovely (the reactions, obviously, not the crying!).

So DS and his friends had clearly learnt that crying didn’t emasculate them. He is now, possibly coincidentally, in one of the caring professions. We never told him not to cry

Your example illustrates the point beautifully that it's not just about the language a boy has to label and verbally express a healthy range of emotions; it's also crucially about him having societal (and parental) permission to express these. Will I be judged for this as being "less of a man"? Will I be told to "man the fuck up" by my mates? If no, I'll express it. If yes, rather than risk being judged as less of a man or told by my Dad that I'm a wimp, I'll just get angry instead because that's a "manly" emotion.

@Nocaloriesinchocolate

I meant to add - therefore by giving your son permission to express^^ all and any emotions, including sadness, you taught him that anger isn't the only default emotion men gain respect for.