AIBU to wonder why men are so angry

[Moanranger]

Having read a Marina Hyde column in the Guardian about being followed & harassed by an angry man, plus my own recent experience with anger from a male stranger, I am asking this.
Where does this male anger come from? Drugs/meth? Steroid use? Just what?
My own recent experience was a road rage incident. I honked my horn at some boy racer (car with spoilers, low slung) speeding on my narrow, windy, busy lane. He screeches to a halt, jumps out of his car, then turns car around & follows me back to my drive, jumps out again & shouts “I know where you live, c**t”
Such anger over nothing, but v similar to Marina’s incident. This is a key issue, huge problem with male rage & toxic masculinity.

@tellmetologoffIamaMNaddict

I once saw a TV documentary about literacy programmes in prisons and how the more vocabulary inmates had the less susceptible to violent incidents they were. I know there is a lot more to it than that but I find the idea interesting. If you are able to express yourself in words you have less need for anger.

And not just able to express yourself in words, but permitted to by society. It's sadly not "masculine" to say "I feel sad and I'm going cry". Boys are very aware of that from a young age. That's a huge part of it for sure.

So your response to the statistical data that clearly evidences men are the main perpetrators of violent crime (against both sexes) is to call me simplistic? What kind of response is that?
A response that says that you stating that men are inherently more aggressive because they are the main perpetrators of violent crime is circular and meaningless. If you don't understand what I've said there I'm sorry, but I can't put it any more clearly.

Your argument making a distinction between 'men are violent and angry' and 'men are violent and angry towards women' is a straw man.

1. They have more testosterone so are more aggressive.

2. They are bigger and stronger (higher % muscle mass + usually taller) so are better placed to follow through with their anger. Most tiny women unless trained in fighting aren't capable of being threatening.

3. They grow up thinking they need to be manly men and part of that is being angry and aggressive.

4. They have more rights and opportunities than us. They're used to being treated as better than us. On some primal level, they don't want us to take their position as kings of the world.

It's all part genetic, part environment.

I often think humans are just awful, and we're all just fighting against biology to be better. Or not fighting, and just being awful.

They're not allowed to be sad, worried, anxious, calm, empathetic or any other 'feminine' emotions. When you squeeze any emotion hard enough, it becomes anger.

This is unfortunately taught at young age... mainly by their own fathers! I can’t stand men who want their boys to be all “macho” and are told crying is for girls and they’re a soft arse for being concerned or worried. Really winds me up!
The same men are there with a fist and a fib ready to “protect” their daughters and think their daughters are their property until their daughter is about 40.

So until boys are allowed to learn other emotions other than aggression and anger, this will continue.

LucieStar yes, rather. I wish I could find the study, I've waded through a couple but none are what I remembered. I think it was part of a documentary about gender socialisation in Primary Schools.

*fist and a GOB

[quote LexMitior]@LucieStar - interesting points. Violent offenders often harbour resentments and very intense feelings about their parenting. Particularly if they had abusive fathers and passive mothers.

Some anger at women as mother is related to that. Anger that their mothers did not care to prevent them from brutish treatment or exposed them to it repeatedly.

A man raised this is twice hurt. His father can be a brute and the mother fails in the protective role the son needs. The lesson is very hard, be aggressive and macho, for protection is not available.

I think something like 75 per cent of men in prison had domestic abuse or violence in their upbringings. Ignoring its presence seems to affect men strongly.[/quote]

Yes. A very high proportion of violent male offenders in the prison estate have either been victims of physical or sexual violence as kids, or witnessed it. It's a cycle that perpetuates, for sure.

Sayomino in my OP, I did not frame the question as why men are angry at women, but why (some) men are so angry, full stop. Maybe you think some posters are responding that way, but that is one aspect. The issue is the anger itself, regardless of who it is directed at. I also think blaming testosterone is overly simplistic, and we have much more well developed brains that should over-ride the aggressive responses seen in animals with simpler brains.
I think popular culture, action films, etc have normalised aggressive male behaviour. There was a time when movie heroes were much more civilised than what you see now. Thinking back to really old films with someone like James Cagney as a gangster - tame compared to, say, the Godfather.
And don’t get me started on how Trump has normalised toxic masculinity.

@Sayamino Many of us feminists have pointed out over the years that men are more likely to be attacked by a male stranger than women are. It has been a major objection to police campaigns advocating that women change their behaviour while out in public to avoid being attacked.

Looking at things through the lens of stranger violence, stranger rapes and murders is simplistic and comforting for 'nice' men.

What OP is referring to are not generally recorded crimes, but normal aggression and intimidation that women face from men very regularly. In addition to these public incidents many women will have been raped or sexually assaulted by a current or previous partner (I have).

We need to examine a whole culture of 'nice' men that use women's bodies as entertainment. Strip clubs, red light districts with 'the boys', porn, sharing of photos. - These issues are more prevalent than ever and they all lead to objectification and dehumanisation of women.

We have a long way to go most men (and women) will need to examine their own behaviour.

*The lesson is very hard, be aggressive and macho, for protection is not available.
*
100%. I heard versions of this over and over, by many male offenders.

@Susie477

Evolutionary biology.

A certain amount of testosterone related agression was advantageous to our male ancestors. It enabled them to compete for resources and to physically protect their families. Our female ancestors, in turn, were attracted to men who were able to provide protection and resources for them and their children. Therefore there was strong evolutionary pressure to favour such attributes in men.

Unfortunately, while these characteristics might have been beneficial back in the day, they can cause problems in 21st century societies where the roles of men & women are much less clearly demarcated.

Yes, I’ve been wondering about this possibility.

The problem with this angle of course is that some will read it as an excuse for men to behave in an angry and violent way.

They're not allowed to be sad, worried, anxious, calm, empathetic or any other 'feminine' emotions. When you squeeze any emotion hard enough, it becomes anger.

Yep, I’ve seen this, most particularly with my DB, who is badly damaged but really does express his emotion mainly through anger.

I remember him saying once, ‘I wish I could cry.’

I think higher levels of testosterone may predispose men naturally to higher levels of anger. But it's definitely not the full picture because otherwise all men would lose control of their anger left right and centre. In my view it creates a predisposition that is then activated by adverse childhood experiences and societal expectations of men and masculinity. Women obviously experience anger too (some research suggests the experience of anger itself is relatively equal between the sexes), but what differs is the male ability to work through it, express it healthily, and regulate it before reacting.

As well as a general difficulty identifying other emotions that might be underlying it, such as fear, sadness, threat, etc (which as women we're far better at).

Lots of aggressive men seem to feel powerless in some areas of their life and seem to use aggression to gain power in the areas they think they can dominate. For some this is over their partners, children and other family members, some in their interactions in the street, some both these places. Interestingly a lot of them have no problem controlling their aggression at work

I remember him saying once, ‘I wish I could cry.’

I've had some men sit with me and cry (in their words) "for the first time in my life". These are men in their 30s/40s. It's mind blowing.

@LucieStar

*The lesson is very hard, be aggressive and macho, for protection is not available. * 100%. I heard versions of this over and over, by many male offenders.

Yes its a failure of parenting on some level in a lot of cases. I think it is actually the one thing that women don't often acknowledge, which is that the decision to put the father at the head of the family, downplaying the children, and particularly a son, is a huge issue.

Many of the reports you read on offenders mention violent homes, and abuse as a general background noise. Aggression is positively rewarded and you get what you can. It is not what you need, but your mother is likely not capable of giving the protection.

@LucieStar

I remember him saying once, ‘I wish I could cry.’

I've had some men sit with me and cry (in their words) "for the first time in my life". These are men in their 30s/40s. It's mind blowing.

In a professional capacity, I'll add. Not just random men in the street!

@LexMitior
Absolutely.

Anyway sorry for derailing slightly. I realise I'm coming at this from an offending behaviour perspective, and the OP is asking about men in general as opposed to offenders. I do think though that the background factors for violent offenders can help us better understand male psychology in general. After all, there's a fine line between shouting aggressively at someone in the street and being convicted of a violent offence.

@LucieStar - I think its a very valuable point because this is a sliding scale. The parental relationship is very important, because the centring of a father who acts badly towards women (though not to commit violence) also has an effect if the son is subject to similar treatment.

The father is not to be trusted and nor the mother, but for different reasons. A mature man will not be interested in fighting for dominance in his own home. A poorly raised one will be.

@GnomeDePlume

When working in London I frequently came across aggressive behaviour towards women on the tube from 'City Gent' types; barging through women to get on and off trains, or power marching up escalators barging past people.

Undoubtedly in their interactions with women they knew they were slightly pompously courteous.

But with unknown women it was as though the mask slipped. A sense of arrogant entitlement showed. The courtesy to known women was fake.

Maybe their agression was a little less physical, but when I had to deal with such people as a young man, they showed a sense of arrogant entitlement to me, too.

[quote LexMitior]@LucieStar - I think its a very valuable point because this is a sliding scale. The parental relationship is very important, because the centring of a father who acts badly towards women (though not to commit violence) also has an effect if the son is subject to similar treatment.

The father is not to be trusted and nor the mother, but for different reasons. A mature man will not be interested in fighting for dominance in his own home. A poorly raised one will be.[/quote]

You're spot on.

The parental relationships are so key. We need to be bringing boys up to express a range of emotions, not suppress the "unmanly" ones. Boys need this permission to grow into emotionally healthy adult men, as well as positive role models in both their parents. Obviously wider society has a huge influence too. But the roots are ultimately at home, in those early days. From my professional experiences, that environment really is so key.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
I feel very passionately about this topic; as you may be able to tell.

As in all parameters of human behaviour, there are a small number of aggressive/ violent mean and women, but from what I e studied the 1 in 100 most aggressive person in a room will ALWAYS be male.

A few ideas as a bloke, why this may be. First evolutionary speaking, we are pretty much highly evolved apes, shows of physical strength or dominance would have been advantageous during the 10s of thousands of years our species spent as hunter gatherers in small groups fighting and raiding each other, more aggression equals more food and more prestige in a group. If you look for example if you Google 'moriori genocide' you will see what happened when this group encountered the well known Maori, the former practiced a none violent cultural norm, but when the Moari arrived on the Chatham Archipelago, and nearly completely wiped out this group. We can see in this case that cultural values of peacefulness were destroyed by that of violence, and so from an evolutionary point of view, being extremely violent was until very recently (this was in 1835) critical to survival.

I personally have been I a few situations where some drunk was clearly looking for a fight (I think the previous points of why some men do this, typically around social displays of trying to be strong have merit), but, I didn't get out of this situation by being nice, or fighting him, instead I had to make it look like I'd do him far more physical harm than he would do me. I think this is very common especially when discussing male on male spontaneous violence with strangers, its often fuelled by alcohol, which actually makes you more aggressive, and is often done to signal that the individual is more dominant, literally like a couple of chimps squaring up to each other, which is a bit depressing when you think of it like that!

I honestly don't know how you prevent incidents like this. It doesn't matter what I, or anyone else says, of a predator or bully wishes to do harm, then I'm not sure you can prevent this, they simply don't care about the moral or civil reasons for doing so. In relation to whether testosterone has something to do, I'd definitely agree, if you examine the reports of women who started taking the hormone they noted it made them feel more confident. I play rugby, amd in that context there is definitely a rush you get when playing, and it's absolutely tapping in to the ape part of our brains that enjoy this. Not an optimistic post, but i do sadly think its the reality!