aibu to think we should campaign for a WLM group in light of recent events ?

[warmandtoasty2day]

just that really, women seem to be a minority in many ways. recent events have bought it to ahead that we won't put up and shut up for anyone. our voices need to be heard as womens lives matter too !

Do you mean 'Women's Lives Matter'?

Posted too soon - as in comparison to if BLM can exist then WLM should exist too?

100% agree.

WLM should be a thing, it's something we need to get out there and see some real action taking place to promote it.

There's absolutely no need to co-opt the BLM movement in doing this. YABU.

@VladmirsPoutine

There's absolutely no need to co-opt the BLM movement in doing this. YABU.

Well I tend to agree now that the slogan is mainstream, but the original version was actually an animal rights slogan, used for decades in the community. So that phrasing wasn't unique to them in the first place.

Yes I think it's a good idea

The problem is that it would instantly get co-opted by all the transactivist groups & forced to focus on ‘anyone who says they’re a woman or nonbinary’.

VladmirsPoutine
There's absolutely no need to co-opt the BLM movement in doing this. YABU

Agreed.

It's so disingenuous.

If you really want a spotlight shone directly on Women's issues then be serious and encourage actively campaigning for it.

Whataboutery around BLM diverts and defeats the aim and conversation, and how exactly does that help?

If you actually care enough about women's rights then you'll be able to debate it singularly as the extremely important issue that it is.

Otherwise it just looks like stirring. Pointless. & It's not the time, particularly now.

@DeeCeeCherry How've you been? I remember we've been banging the same drum on a lot of these sorts of threads over the years. Nothing has changed, alas.

Why use WLM? I agree with pp that it would cause a lot of whatsboutery.

BLM should have. I think g that distracts from it’s message. WLM has an air of ALM and I don’t like that association.

I would like to see stronger links with #reclaimthestreets and #metoo. Womencentric movements with no other agendas.

I’ve heard that there is another vigil today at Scotland Yard. I would love to have attended it but I can’t as it is Mother’s Day.

I would like to see nationwide (or even worldwide) peaceful vigils taking place next weekend

I get the point that you're making but I think it's massively dismissive of the BLM movement to call the campaign WLM. It sounds way too much like all lives matter.

Women need to campaign for their right to be safe, but we need to come up with our own slogan. I absolutely wouldn't want to see a campaign for women's safety taking attention away from the BLM movement, which addresses a separate but incredibly important issue.

I fully read that as white lives matter (not that they don’t).

I think we need a movement for all disadvantaged groups, a movement of unity that black people, the working class, disabled, homosexual etc can all get under and join as the central cause for complaint is largely the same.

Discrimination, inequality, lack of power, lack of access, silenced.

I think we need a movement for all disadvantaged groups, a movement of unity that black people, the working class, disabled, homosexual etc can all get under and join as the central cause for complaint is largely the same.

I get that the intention of this is positive, but I don't agree. There are similarities in some of the problems that we face, but there are differences too. One movement would risk losing the voices of the most disadvantaged - those who face intersectional disadvantage and the more privileged within the disadvantaged groups would benefit the most.

DH told me this morning that women need to burn everything to the ground. I agree.

That is true @AlexaShutUp

I was thinking an umbrella type movement with various arms.

It just feels to me that pretty much everyone except the elite are suffering under this government and instead of fighting and arguing with each other, some unity needs to be had to face the common problem.

I think it would be too undermining if BLM slogan. We have reclaimthestreets and metoo already. Let's get behind those.

Yes, but I don't think 'WLM' is a good name for such a movement. It would be wrong to appropriate this from BLM. I understand BLM didn't invent the ... Lives Matter formula, but it's now associated with that movement predominantly in the mainstream media.

I'd rather have the existing sexmatters as a campaign
BLM has centering transwomen of colour as one of its main aims. I want a movement for women that won't be taken over by males

@LongPauseNoAnswer

DH told me this morning that women need to burn everything to the ground. I agree.

Sadly there’s be a general level of expectation that we’d apologise and clear up after ourselves.

I want a movement for women that won't be taken over by males

Really could we just try to put aside transphobia just for once while other things are happening. Just for once.

But the issue within WLM - I'm using your term OP because I fundamentally don't agree with co-oping BLM - is that a lot of white women can't see further than themselves. Intersectionality means fuck all to them. That's in part why this tragic death has mobilised so many people because a lot of white women see themselves in her image; their daughters, sisters, friends etc. Also a lot of them expressing shock at police brutality - which is akin to being shocked that 2+2=4.

We have reclaimthestreets and metoo already. Let's get behind those

I agree with frogswimming

Somehow we need to get the decent men (there are a lot of them) to pull up the many many shitty men on their shitty behaviour.

I’ve done it myself. “Please don’t call her “tits” that barmaid is a friend of mine she’s called Jane”
The men I was with are decent to women, but they just let that pass. I think a lot less of them for it.

You are right @VladmirsPoutine.

What happened to Sarah Everard was awful and it's right that there should be a public outcry, but I think we would be kidding ourselves if we believed that the death of a young black woman would have sparked the same reaction.

There's a model already "out there" Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW) that predates BLM and has shown how to promote the ideas and changes needed. And the UK has End Violence Against Women www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/about/

But I do wonder if any campaign or movement can get past the divisions that exist. Much as I hate to think this, I wonder if anyone would have even noticed much, had it been a black single mum coming back from the pub. A white middle class blonde is a very attractive rallying point, but I do wonder what made all those other women who were murdered not rallying points?