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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu to think we should campaign for a WLM group in light of recent events ?

174 replies

warmandtoasty2day · 14/03/2021 13:51

just that really, women seem to be a minority in many ways. recent events have bought it to ahead that we won't put up and shut up for anyone. our voices need to be heard as womens lives matter too !

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 14/03/2021 17:16

Do you think the reaction would be the same if someone had the temerity to say ‘a lot of black women can’t see further than themselves’?
Can't we keep race out if it? Why are white women not to react to this tragic murder with a vigil, a protest or whatever they wish?

No, on a thread which proposes to co-opt the BLM slogan for a campaign for women's safety, I don't think we can keep race out of it. It's a conversation that needs to be had.

And of course white women can react as they wish. I am a white woman and I supported the vigil for Sarah. However, black women can also react as they wish, and I wouldn't blame them at all for feeling a little bit sick at the difference in how black deaths and white deaths are treated in the media and by society, or for choosing to point that out.

Pteppic · 14/03/2021 17:23

It's an excellent idea, but sadly it'll be bound to be hijacked by the militant trans lobby. How dare women get above their station. Etc

Knitterbabe · 14/03/2021 17:25

@DeeCeeCherry
I think the pp meant that she read it as White Lives Matter, not that she was suggesting that!

AlexaShutUp · 14/03/2021 17:26

@Knitterbabe, @DeeCeeCherry said the same initials as. Which is exactly why the pp misread it as that.

Knitterbabe · 14/03/2021 17:26

Sh, I see that I misunderstood your point. You mean that because Women and Whiite start with W

VladmirsPoutine · 14/03/2021 17:27

whatever slogan we put it under we HAVE to be heard.

CAN you stop to hear yourself??? No. It doesn't work like that! "Whatever slogan" is not the way forward.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/03/2021 17:28

Knitterbabe
@DeeCeeCherry
I think the pp meant that she read it as White Lives Matter, not that she was suggesting that!

I was referring to myself, when I 1st read Post. I immediately thought White Lives Matter when I saw WLM.

Imagine hash-tagging that as a slogan and where it would end up...

VladmirsPoutine · 14/03/2021 17:30

I don't care how this makes me sound but I will say it: Given the choice I would rather eradicate racism than sexism. There I said it. White women and their concerns are being heard right now. You are not being silenced!! Have you even looked at the phenomenon of 'Missing white woman' syndrome. Don't you ever think there's a reason why Madeline had so much attention paid both financially and within the media about her. Do you ever consider Shukri Yahye-Abdi? No you don't.

Tangogolf55 · 14/03/2021 17:30

Ffs.... what has this world become.

Lampzade · 14/03/2021 17:30

@DeeCeeCherry

VladmirsPoutine There's absolutely no need to co-opt the BLM movement in doing this. YABU

Agreed.

It's so disingenuous.

If you really want a spotlight shone directly on Women's issues then be serious and encourage actively campaigning for it.

Whataboutery around BLM diverts and defeats the aim and conversation, and how exactly does that help?

If you actually care enough about women's rights then you'll be able to debate it singularly as the extremely important issue that it is.

Otherwise it just looks like stirring. Pointless. & It's not the time, particularly now.

This
VladmirsPoutine · 14/03/2021 17:33

Ffs.... what has this world become.

It hasn't become anything. It was always like this! But whenever white women are suffering or indeed white men it becomes a cause of concern for the majority. If Sarah had been a Black woman we would not be holding vigils. Frankly if her alleged murderer had been Black he would be front and centre being posted on news-sites. Seriously. It has to take all of this for some of you to understand the most basic functions of society.

AlexaShutUp · 14/03/2021 17:33

I don't care how this makes me sound but I will say it: Given the choice I would rather eradicate racism than sexism. There I said it.

And it's your absolute right to say it. I reckon my mixed race dd would say the same.

ChonkyChook · 14/03/2021 17:43

Reclaim has put out a tweet saying they'll decide what to do with the funds raised in due course.

The responses are from Sisters Uncut supporters saying they should have the money.

ElizaLaLa · 14/03/2021 17:44

Yanbu. I agree op.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/03/2021 17:51

VladmirsPoutine

It hasn't become anything. It was always like this! But whenever white women are suffering or indeed white men it becomes a cause of concern for the majority. If Sarah had been a Black woman we would not be holding vigils

Frankly if her alleged murderer had been Black he would be front and centre being posted on news-sites. Seriously. It has to take all of this for some of you to understand the most basic functions of society

All of this.

2 Black Women brutally murdered in a park. A policeman takes photos of their mutilated bodies and sends them round to colleagues and mates for a laugh. & We've heard nothing further about the investigation.

Wayne Couzens flashes his dick at McD's. The policemen called to take report, don't take it seriously. & We know what happened 4 days later.

Has nobody noticed that the photos put up of him show him clean cut and either relaxed or smiling? If he were a black man they'd take his mugshot and pick out the worst looking photo to present to the public.

It was ever the case that one day their disrespect of difference, arrogance in the power that they hold, would spill over elsewhere. Always.

It's a sad and harsh lesson to learn. But learned it must be. The government and society's game of divide and rule, foster hate and suspicion, should never have been played. Racism, support of racism, dismissal of microaggressions is a huge part of it.

So what now.

DdraigGoch · 14/03/2021 17:53

@VladmirsPoutine

I want a movement for women that won't be taken over by males

Really could we just try to put aside transphobia just for once while other things are happening. Just for once.

Hmm this is about the death of a biological woman who was (probably) killed because of her sex. This is about male violence against females, now is not the time for males to talk about their issues. It's time that TRAs put aside their gynephobia and stopped making every issue about them.
DdraigGoch · 14/03/2021 17:57

@Still1nLove

I’ve just read an article about a man, convicted of sexually assaulting a woman who he had grabbed in the street, given a suspended sentence because a prison term would’ve meant he would loose his job! Surely the least we can expect is justice?

#reclaimthestreets #metoo #endviolenceagainstwomen

I hate hearing of that sort of thing. People with a string of driving offences and two dozen points on their licence yet the courts don't ban them from driving because "they need their car for their job". If they lose their job because they have committed a crime, that's their problem to solve, the courts shouldn't act leniently.
AlexaShutUp · 14/03/2021 18:05

If Sarah had been a Black woman we would not be holding vigils

I know in my heart that this is true. And it's really hard for me to say this, but I find myself questioning whether my own reaction to Sarah's death would have been the same had she been black. I desperately don't want to believe that I would have felt any differently, but deep down, I am not totally sure. Would the murder of a young black woman have been less shocking to me? I'm ashamed to say it, but I think perhaps it might.

As white women, we cannot demand that men confront the problem of misogyny if we are not equally ready to confront the issue of race.

VladmirsPoutine · 14/03/2021 18:21

@AlexaShutUp I appreciate the post you just made. So please allow me to express a similar yet different sentiment which might render me a witch.

I will say that I am saddened by Sarah's death and do not wish it upon anyone and my thoughts are with her loved ones.

But I will say that I didn't feel particularly moved. I am ashamed to say that this is the perfect merging of police brutality i.e. state sanctioned violence meeting precious white women. This is why this has caused such an uproar. And I really am trying to find it within myself to not look at white women and say "well there you go, what were you expecting."

A lot has been happening in recent times. But as a Black - well mixed race woman - I really am needing to reach very far within myself to empathise with white women. Frankly I am.

VladmirsPoutine · 14/03/2021 18:24

So whilst yes I feel this tragic death of Sarah very much - I will say that what now? Where do we go from here? A lot of white people in general were saying they were shocked that a police officer was implicated. I didn't find that shocking in the least! And now we have police officers being castigated and arresting white women. Sorry but I really am struggling to give a single shit.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 14/03/2021 18:29

Sadly, one could simply resurrect the Reclaim the Night movement of the 70's - too old for hashtags, and sadly we don't seem to have progressed too far.

Knitterbabe · 14/03/2021 18:36

@VladmirsPoutine

So whilst yes I feel this tragic death of Sarah very much - I will say that what now? Where do we go from here? A lot of white people in general were saying they were shocked that a police officer was implicated. I didn't find that shocking in the least! And now we have police officers being castigated and arresting white women. Sorry but I really am struggling to give a single shit.
I suspect you are actually rather pleased. And using your black privilege to say things that a white woman would not be allowed to say.
AlexaShutUp · 14/03/2021 18:37

But as a Black - well mixed race woman - I really am needing to reach very far within myself to empathise with white women. Frankly I am.

I understand this @VladmirsPoutine, and I appreciate your honesty. Frankly, why should you empathise with white women when there has been so little empathy in the opposite direction for so long?

I despair a bit at how we can move forward though. I was brought up by parents who taught me from a young age that racism was wrong. My white dad was arrested for protesting against apartheid before I was even born. My DH isn't white. My DD isn't white. My closest friend isn't white. I am not used to seeing myself as part of the problem. I want to be an ally, but if I'm feeling deep down inside that there would somehow be something less shocking to me about the death of a young black woman, I honestly don't know how we as a society are going to tackle this issue. I am not expecting you to come up with any solutions to this btw, but I am just wondering how we will get to grips with it.

twelly · 14/03/2021 18:38

all live matter - I don't agree with BLM or WLM - everyone is important. We live in a diverse society where everyone is important.

OppsUpsSide · 14/03/2021 18:44

I’m suprised at the number of women who think this reaction is solely in response to Sarah’s murder. It isn’t.