aibu to think we should campaign for a WLM group in light of recent events ?

[warmandtoasty2day]

just that really, women seem to be a minority in many ways. recent events have bought it to ahead that we won't put up and shut up for anyone. our voices need to be heard as womens lives matter too !

@apalledandshocked No, I don’t google trans issues or read articles about it. Only what comes up on AIBU from time to time.

There are also plenty of feminist campaigns that could really do with more women getting behind them. Like the new sexmatters.org.uk which Maya Forstater is involved in.

twelly
villifying the police is not going to help, the vast majority of police are honest, non racist and trying their best to serve the community

I can't really get with that if when DP is stopped whilst driving my heart is in my mouth in case police beat him up.

Not when Black deaths in police custody stretching back years, haven't resulted in convictions.

Not when a policeman took photos of the mutilated bodies of 2 Black Women brutally murdered last year, and sent them to his colleagues and mates for a laugh.

Not when a police officer flashes his dick in public and officers didn't deal with reporting and following it up correctly.

Not when days later, a woman simply walking making her way home, didn't actually make it due to a police officer

Not when rightly angry and upset and fearful women were manhandled on Clapham Common.

A police officer who covers for corrupt colleagues and doesn't out the bad is not a good police officer.

I'm ever wary of them and will remain so until, if ever happens, there is a full and transparent enquiry flushing out the bad apples in the force, a heavy focus on eradicating racist practices, and prioritising Womens' absolute right to move through our lives as safely as possible.

@dreamingbohemian

Exactly *@apalledandshocked*

Even now, with this big groundswell of support for women's rights, you see people saying 'don't make it about race' or 'only "real" women allowed'. It's so depressing.

I think there are a lot of conversations that could be had about how it connects to race. There is whether the murder would have received as much attention if she wasnt white - I feel a bit conflicted about this. In the one hand there are people saying that we need to pay equal attention to missing/murdered women who are black/other ethnicities. I completely agree with this. On the other hand there is a minority of people who are manipulating that into "whataboutery" suggesting that the murder deserves LESS attention because the media hasnt paid sufficient attention to other murders in the past. The people I noticed on my own social media feed doing the latter and I havent noticed them particularly interested in intersectionality in the past. So I am suspicous of their motives there.

There is also the fact that the police, and others, sort of implied that she was at fault for walking in the area she was - because it was a "poor" area (there is a bit of a racist subtext there about the types of men who are dangerous). Made all the more ironic by the person currently charged with her murder.

Then there is the MET police forces handling of other crimes, including their absolutely abhorent actions following the treatment of Nicole Smallman and Biba Henry www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-53198702 that really really went beyond the pale. It just goes to show that the problem is far deeper than just one officer (and I am not hating on the police, but the fact the culture existed that made them think that was fine is damning)

sorry, that should have said "The people I noticed on my own social media feed doing the latter are mostly male,"

@DeeCeeCherry sorry, I cross posted with you, I spent far too long writing out my own post. I agree with everything you said.

apalledandshocked
@DeeCeeCherry sorry, I cross posted with you, I spent far too long writing out my own post. I agree with everything you said

Likewise.

I remember 2 policemen sitting in their police car, making fun of and laughing at people in the car park. Their crime? People were trying to pay for parking and the machine kept returning their coins. The police laughed at everyone who put the coin in more than twice.

There have been small incidents like these that have made me lose respect for the police. I certainly wouldn't voluntarily allow a policeman in my home when I'm alone now.

@Zevia

We do though, I dont need BLM to tell me that? Have you been working under the mistaken assumption that the BLM protests are targeted solely at you? Oops!

Shut up.

Forgot to say that they were making their comments and laughter through a tannoy, so we all heard.

ALM x

ALM x

This isn't a charity, beg elsewhere for alms.

'Police sergeant Ben Lister, based at Bradford district, is due in court at Bradford magistrates on 24 March 2021'

'He has been charged with one count of rape and one count of sexual assault, according to the force'.

Goes without saying that it's best not to discuss this in detail right now

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/15/police-officer-to-appear-in-court-on-charges-of-rape-and-sexual-assault

Calling such a movement WLM is absolutely crass in the extreme, for all the reasons that other posters far more eloquent than me have pointed out.

Also, I can't help feeling (and don't know if I can articulate it properly) that there is a huge amount of white privilege attached to the comments about making sure trans women are excluded from such a movement (which also sounds pretty bloody transphobic to be honest).

What happened to Sarah has been happening to black women for a long time with a miniscule amount of press in comparison. It seems to privileged that instead of focusing on the fact that women have been killed by police and others for a long time, and we need to somehow stop it now, as Black women have known all along, it still happens with enough rarity to white women that there is enough energy amongst them to start focusing on side issues like the involvement of trans women in the movement.

And a lot of public figures who have been lauded by feminists for sticking up for "women's rights", have been people who have been publicly racist in the past. So white feminists are getting support for their concerns about trans issues, by effectively throwing black women under the bus.

Any movement to reclaim our streets has to focus on all women and it needs to be intersectional. Because frankly, there is far more chance of black women being exposed to police brutality in the future than white women. And if Sarah was a trans woman, there is a good chance the policeman wouldn't have known that and she would have still been murdered anyway.

These issues affect ALL woman, but minority women most.

I suppose a better way of saying what I mean, is that this thread has some posts which smack of "yes, we want women to join together and protest our right to be safe.......oh, but not you, we don't mean YOUR type of woman involved thanks".

How bloody privileged and also bigoted to be so damn picky when we need as many supporters as possible to back our right to be safe on the streets at night.

@SirChing

I suppose a better way of saying what I mean, is that this thread has some posts which smack of "yes, we want women to join together and protest our right to be safe.......oh, but not you, we don't mean YOUR type of woman involved thanks".

How bloody privileged and also bigoted to be so damn picky when we need as many supporters as possible to back our right to be safe on the streets at night.

Agree 100%!

So I've just seen that prominent white feminist, and hero to many on the feminism chat board on here, Julie Burchill has just had to make a court-ordered apology for her racial harassment of a Muslim woman.

Dont expect to see her rejected by her followers though, because racism can be ignored so long as the abuser is gender-critical.

Yes I read the details earlier of what she did and it was really appalling. Her book is now being published by a woman who wrote for a BNP offshoot.

I very much hope her followers will reconsider their support but something tells me it won't happen.

Dont expect to see her rejected by her followers though, because racism can be ignored so long as the abuser is gender-critical

Yep!

Burchill has always required her supporters to overlook and minimise huge amounts of repellant behaviour. Along with many other GC "heroes". Nothing wrong with being GC. Everything wrong with throwing your lot in with feminists who are only GC because they are in fact bigots in lots of areas. The rights of women and girls are purely incidental side effects in their condemnation of difference, NOT their starting point.

Seeing GC feminists doing a giant "pick me dance" for their support is nauseating.

A few, maybe, but I've just seen response over in feminism chat, re. Burchill's racism and misogyny, that Burchill 'putting her foot in her mouth' is part of the reason they love her. I mean, really....

Sorry that reply was intend to be to dreamingboheminian

My god @Knitterbabe that was a spectacularly nasty racist post you made. I was reading this just now having recently seen this post referenced in another post and had no intention of commenting but you really need a few lessons.

1. @VladmirsPoutine and @DeeCeeCherry and @AlexaShutUp all make very valid points on this thread. There is absolutely no way that if Sarah Everard had been black this outcry would have occurred, you'd either hear nothing about it or indeed she would have had all kind of suspicion cast on her first, she absolutely would not have been assumed to be and entirely innocent victim. The newspapers would have trawled through her life trying to find information to discredit and victim blame her if they even reported on it at all.
2. Police violence isnt surprise to black people or those with black children. It is something known and discussions are had with our children from very young about how to safely interact with the police WHEN they are stopped. (my son was stopped for the first time age 9 playing basketball. He wasn't wearing a shirt because he was hot and 2 policeman parked their car, got put and screamed at him to put his shirt on and told him he was committing a crime. No way that would havlppen to a white boy. Good thing I'd been having The Talk with him si he was about 4 or 5). Police violence is absolutely in brand behaviour. It's only unusual when the victim is white.
3. It is a perfectly fair point to say well....now you have a problem with police violence - funny how you were silent when it was happening to black people. Fundamentally bid you go out and protest the murder if a white woman by the police but not a black man, it's worthwhile asking yourself why and what that might mean about your own prejudices.
4. Suggesting that @VladimirsPoutine was "rather pleased" and is using "black privilege" is appalling and you are talking absolute bollocks. Educate yourself

A Male is not a type of woman.

[quote Charley50]@Dyrne - I completely agree that the idea of calling something All women matter is completely distasteful.

I disagree that white women haven't been doing feminism though. I also disagree that white feminists only do feminism for white women, as a lot of activism is about changing laws that affect all women in the UK. [/quote]
@Charley50 Black women benefiting is a case of crumbs falling from the table. Let’s be honest here, I don’t think black women were what they had in mind when fighting e.g right to vote, or equal pay even, black women just benefited as a result of gender.