To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

debbie
I asked the question.

So it could be read either way
I certainly totally meant it in the way I explained it.

It never entered my mind too, but you just have to read regular posts here to know that women are much more interested in what a prospective partner earns than the other way around.

@dontdisturbmenow

Even nice respectful men join in the banter amongst their friends and don’t call it out And women come and bitch about men, undermining them and building generalisations on public forums.

Of course the latter is not deemed disrespectful at all!

So discussing how men are disrespectful about women is now 'bitching' about men? You're suggesting this is the same as the vile misogyny dressed up as banter that so many of us have experienced?

I gree to the extent that I have witnessed a fee men being groped and sexually explicit comments being made to them, by customers or senior female colleagues and they have felt humiliated...but everyone has just laughed. I dont think thats acceptable. But I think that these men were just embarrassed, I doubt they would have been worried about sexual assault if they had been trapped in a lift with them, I doubt they were worried about being followed home after etc. Its much much more common against women and it's often much more subtle and therefore harder to prove, for example being expected to make the drinks in a meeting can be passed off as a mistake, or comments on someone being there to 'make the place look pretty' can be passed off as a 'compliment', someone trying it on with someone when they've made clear they are not interested can be a 'joke'.

I dont think most men respect women. I think they think they do because they are not raping or murdering them. But looking through boards on here, how many men expect women to do the majority of the childcare or housework just because they are women? What percentage of men truly truly do half of everything at home? Yes women facilitate this to an extent ('oh he is just a man, they don't care as much about a clean house, they don't see the detail so I'd have to do it again myself anyway'). How many men prioritise their career over their partners because they think they are more important? How many men comment with sexually inappropriate words on womens social media or discuss women they know to their friends? With comments like 'I'd destroy that ass'...I bet these men think this is 'normal' and because they are not literally destroying an ass it's ok. How many men on stag dos visit strip clubs and brothels? How many men have double standards about women leaving their children for a weekend away or a night out because once you're a mother you're supposed to gladly spend every waking minute with your children, but they skip out of the house for a hobby weekend without a second thought. How many men have double standards about how a woman is supposed to look (weight, makeup etc) while 'letting themselves go'. How many men have double standards about their wives talking to other men. It's still socially acceptable to make comments such as 'I'll lock my daughter up, she wont be allowed any boyfriends til she is 30' while encouraging your son to go out and have fun with girls. Like women don't deserve to have a sex life and 'good' girls dont have sex. How often do we still hear the word 'slag' as an insult? How often are women harassed on the street, when doing exercise, on a night out. Why are comments about women drivers, jokes about blondes, comments about not wanting to work in an all female team because it can get 'bitchy', saying you don't want to employ a female of childbearing age incase they get pregnant etc all apparently still socially acceptable?

I think very few men truly 100pc respect women. I think they think that they do but the disrespect is often quite subtle and so widespread that its actually difficult to see. They might not cat call women from a car, but they don't see how talking about women with their friends and commenting 'great tits' contributes to society thinking women are there just to please men and be used for their bodies. I think this filters down to women as well and our perception of ourselves, in things like 'mum guilt' or how we dress because we don't want to be perceived a certain way etc. So while you do have a point, the fact that men don't often openly grope women as much as they used to, or that some women do it to men, isn't massively relevant to the issues that women face.

@dontdisturbmenow

So it could be read either way I certainly totally meant it in the way I explained it.

It never entered my mind too, but you just have to read regular posts here to know that women are much more interested in what a prospective partner earns than the other way around.

But why?

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about.

We've all had a little chat, OP, and while we really appreciate you sticking up for us men we've decided we can probably cope without it.

On the whole we think the epidemic of VAWG is probably a bit more important than our hurt feelings.

(Don't get any ideas about the pay gap though, that's too far)

**
But I am sure a group of girls on social media can also be objectifying men, so in all fairness that should be pulled up too**

They do and no it’s not ok either but they don’t generally go forth into the world and do all the other casual micro aggressions that men do. You don’t get a woman winding down her window t passing men shouting nice arse . It is also another thread all of its own. So we should tackle the big problem first and that is the menfolk unfortunately and I say that as an all male household. Eve. The bloody cats a bloke.

But why?
Not for me to answer. Can only make assumptions.

I don't believe all men are equally likely to physically harm women. But there is a huge amount of disrespect for women that is so normalised it's almost invisible to some. Society really doesn't produce men that are 100% respectful of women. Show me the evidence that women are widely fully respected by men.

If men as a class respected women the two top porn sites wouldn’t amass over 6 billion visitors every month. That’s more than Twitter, Amazon, Instagram or Neflix.

More men are paying to watch women being raped and abused than the whole population is watching their favourite TV shows.

Think about that.

@dontdisturbmenow

But why? Not for me to answer. Can only make assumptions.

I think the answer is that sexism really does work both ways.

Oh and good point from a previous poster the inequality regarding sex is still alive and kicking. Often backed up by woman. Girls are sluts and the boys get a pat on the back for having multiple partners.

@PegasusReturns

If men as a class respected women the two top porn sites wouldn’t amass over 6 billion visitors every month. That’s more than Twitter, Amazon, Instagram or Neflix.

More men are paying to watch women being raped and abused than the whole population is watching their favourite TV shows.

Think about that.

Out of curiosity, what is the percentage of women watching these sites?

We all have unconscious prejudices (or conscious ones) and a very common male one is to consider women less worthy of respect in the sense of not being worth listening to. There’s a huge amount of research showing that men talk more than women in all sorts of group situations, are more likely to interrupt women, and that a woman who is assertive in taking up the same speaking time as a man is perceived negatively as talking too much and trying to dominate the conversation.
These men may be anywhere on the spectrum from molesting women to sharing ‘banter’ to never sexually harassing women and being shocked at the idea. But they still don’t give women the respect they automatically extend to men - of listening and taking her seriously.
www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/18/men-interrupt-women-tokyo-olympics/

I think most men think that they are respectful to women. That doesn't stop me knowing that my home is safer without one in it.

You have to give credit to the ‘tiny minority’ of men who harass women for being hard workers since they’ve managed to get to 97% of the adult female population. That’s some work ethic, eh?

‘ I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about.’

Seriously? No, it’s not All men but It is too many men, and it is also too many men letting their mates behave in a way they wouldn’t, without calling them out on it, or making excuses for it...

@katieloves

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

It is not the same for men.

I am a man. Yes, I have been subjected to uninvited sexual comments from women, yes I have been groped. However, unlike every woman who has trusted me enough to talk about her personal experiences, here's why it is not remotely comparable.

It has been a rare occurrence for me, whereas for women it can be so common as to be almost routine.
As a schoolboy, I was never subjected to inappropriate sexualised behaviour by adult women. By contrast, most of the women I know experienced being catcalled, harassed, blatantly ogled or even propositioned by adult males from a very young age.
On the rare occasions when I have been subjected to uninvited advances or physical contact by a woman I have never felt afraid. By contrast, the women I know tell me of the fear they experience worrying what might happen if the situation escalates. If she makes him angry what could happen? He could attack her, he might sexually assault or even rape her. I can barely imagine, what it must feel like to be made to feel like that.

We cannot solve this problem without owning it. Men who want to help drive meaningful change need to start by recognising that we are all part of the problem. Enough of this "I want to help but it's not me or my sons or any of my mates that are remotely responsible" bullshit. And women need to stop deluding themselves that their male loved-ones are absent of any blame as well.

The majority of men may not have physically assaulted, raped or murdered a woman. However, there are far fewer men who have never ever been aggressive towards a woman or been sexually antagonistic. There are fewer still who have never settled for anything less that enthusiastic consent. And finally I would argue there are none whatsoever who can claim to never have kept silent when one of their friends acting inappropriately towards a woman or participated in misogynistic "banter".

I spoke to my adult son about this yesterday. He says he is very respectful towards women and so are all his friends. I have two sons who are not at all misogynistic. I feel sorry that all men are being vilified at the moment. There are many kind, considerate and good men around. My daughters boyfriend is one too. I wonder how much upbringing has an influence and how much influence our society has. There are many men who are abused by women emotionally and physically.

Yes sure they do in front of you.Meanwhile with mates they are watching porn

I can say with absolute certainty that my two sons have never done that

Oh dear I have some bad news for you.

Not ALL men watch porn. They really don’t.

@GoLightlyontheEarth

Not ALL men watch porn. They really don’t.

I am sure they do

but it would be interesting to know the statistic of women who watch it too, why wouldn't it?

@Dogscanteatonions

I suspectb if you were privy to your 16 year olds conversations with his mates you might think otherwise.

If you are 100 per cent, how about you check your boy’s internet habits. That should give you a good clue as to whether you are right or not

Why are you sure they all do? My OH has never watched it in his life.

@GoLightlyontheEarth

I spoke to my adult son about this yesterday. He says he is very respectful towards women and so are all his friends. I have two sons who are not at all misogynistic. I feel sorry that all men are being vilified at the moment. There are many kind, considerate and good men around. My daughters boyfriend is one too. I wonder how much upbringing has an influence and how much influence our society has. There are many men who are abused by women emotionally and physically.

Well of course he would say that to his mother!