To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

I very much doubt your sons friends 100% respect women.

It's not about MENZ, it's also unfair on girls and women to raise them as victims, to give them a screwed vision of the world and to drag them with you.

You don't get them the tools to succeed is you try to mould them into pre-prepared and passive victims.

I suspectb if you were privy to your 16 year olds conversations with his mates you might think otherwise.

And his internet search history.

@Firstbellini

It isn’t generational. I have a teen DD and the treatment of young women by her uni peers has been horrendous.

Exactly, it’s getting worse. I’m 42 and when I think of what I’ve been through, I’m frightened of what my 4yo daughter will be experiencing in years to come.

How can you possibly still be centering the feelings of men in all this? Make it make sense.

@user14515324156262562
People like you are the reason most rapists are free to walk the streets

What????

This thread makes me want to scream. The posters complaining about how the men must feel and suggesting that acknowledging male violence is playing the victim are the people raising men who who will go on to disrespect, harass, abuse or attack women. You are part of the problem.

I think you only need to look at the Relationship board to see how much men respect women.

MNers hate men!

My experience of men over 50 years doesn't make them as a whole more disrespectful than women. In the work arena, the only bullying I have experienced was by other women.

The worse disrespect I've seen online is without a doubt here.

Do most men behave in a way which is fundamentally decent towards women? I think so

Do far too many men behave in ways which are not? Definitely

As for respect, I think so much of our society is disrespectful to women. The majority of men (and plenty of women) have those sometimes subtly, disrespectful attitudes ingrained in them from an early age and have to learn to actively challenge them.

I think you only need to look at the Relationship board to see how much men respect women
Really? I'm sure if men bothered to share their views on an open male forum, and believe everything written, you'd believe women are evil.

The closest to it was the father's fighting for their rights after separation. That certainly portrayed women as horrible disrespectful beings.

Oh the poor poor men, those evil nasty wummin are at it again vilifying the poor defenceless men! Will no one think of the men?!? 😱

On the flip side, I’m pretty damn sure men can take care of themselves OP. They proved that with the #superstaight excitement. Away and cry over someone that actually deserves it

Do people all hate their sons?

Surely we all need to be bringing up our children to respect everyone and call out people who aren’t.

Schools need to do more, parents need to step up. Friends need to call out their mates when they say something inappropriate rather than not just engaging

If you think most men respect women then I'll add a screenshot of a message I received on tinder- I get things like this on a fairly regular basis.

So yeah, this is how men are taught to 'respect' women. 'Aaah but it's just a bit of banter isn't it? No harm done?' That's how it's always dressed up, just a joke, just a bit of fun. It's casual sexism and it's disgusting that it's so readily accepted and normalised. I've probably had worse than that on there, that's just a recent one.

How do you define ‘respect’?

Google suggests: ‘due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others’

I don’t see many men saying or doing v much to improve women’s (and/or BAME or LGBT) wishes and rights. For example, equality initiatives at work.

And things men I know say suggests that they don’t have much ‘regard’ for those raising or seeking to address issues, eg claims that ‘things are getting better’, ‘we already have X women in leadership roles’ .

Do people all hate their sons?
Don't be silly! Sons raised by MNers are perfect!

I think both men and women are very controlling in their very own ways, both believe their way is innocent and the other a sin.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind that is truly disgusting, I’m so sorry you’re receiving messages like that put a screen in front of a man and he stops seeing women as people.

I used to work in a bar/nightclub and I can tell you that in that environment it’s dog eat dog.
I have lost count of the number of pissed up women I have seen mauling men. Inappropriate sexualised behaviour, touching them up, teasing and goading.
It is a grim reality and isn’t just confined to the ‘hen party’ scene.

The appalling behaviour some men display towards women needs to be challenged and debated. There is no doubt that some men have a disgusting sense of entitlement and power but shutting down all conversations that criticise women is dangerous.

The men I know who have respect for women have no issue with the increased awareness of women’s harassment.

There are some amazing people who respect other people, with no agenda, not because they’re told to they just do it. Despite the decent people there is endemic prejudices ,such as misogyny, engraved in to society. We need to confront that.

The last time I was at a football match (a large ground - over 30,000 fans) a young woman got up from her seat. The men around her started to loudly discuss her breasts. Soon a group of 20ish men were chanting ‘get your tits out’. This then spread to quite a large number of the male spectators in that section. Some were young, some were older. Some of the older men were with their wives, who seemed to be laughing along. They moved on to sing a chant about a footballer who “had his share of whores”. Why is that language ok? Why can’t we condemn it?

At the school I worked at 3 15 year old lads got in trouble with the police for circulating a topless image of one of the girls in their year group. They had sent the image to over 30 boys before someone told their parents. The lads in question had seemed quiet and sensible, but they thought sharing the picture of this girl was “just banter”.

There are thousands of memes about rape and violence towards women. There are thousands more that are derogatory and perpetuate chauvinistic ideas.

So, OP for your DS, who is obviously a good person, I hope you can explain to him that women have been victims of violence, discrimination and disrespect for hundreds of years and the current campaign to end that isn’t an attempt to vilify him personally, but an attempt to eradicate insipid prejudicial attitudes and behaviours that pervade society.

Define “respect”.

Is not raping and murdering women respect?

Is leaving coffee cups on the side for her to clear up respect?

Is expecting her to do the bulk of childcare and housework respect?

Any man who treats me like I don’t understand simple concepts does not respect me.

Any man who believes in “pink brain” does not respect me.

“Respect” goes far beyond not raping and killing.
And a man who truly respects women as equals and people, with their own abilities and brains, not just there to facilitate their own lives, is a rare thing.

How many times have we seen men in the last week explain their “respect” with “as a father and a husband”?

I would go as far as saying very few men truly respect women.

Of course we don’t hate our sons - stupid, offensive, derailing comment.

you know what? Not all women are bitter and angry men-haters either.

If we female manage to not all fit in the same mould, pretty sure men manage that too.

I don't feel sorry for the poor defenceless men at all. I feel sorry and I pity the very bitter women who put themselves in such a state.

I dislike the way that anytime anyone tries to draw attention to inequality someone takes offence. I don’t believe all men are attackers at all, but it isn’t damaging to have these conversations. I have a ds and he often takes offence and dislikes discussing these things as he isn’t like that, but I think it is so important for him to understand his privilege and the struggles that women face that he will never have to deal with.

I do also think that a significant number of men view women as ‘less than’. I have a colleague who spouts on about the lack of women in our management team - he is absolutely right - but will not seek or accept training or support from one of the few women that has made it!! She is wonderful, supportive and approachable and the expert on one of our office systems, but it seems that he would rather struggle through and criticise the system than actually accept her help and training. He has previously asked for advice from one of the men and was directed back to her and left it at that. It is very transparent and actually quite appalling tbh. We have a long way to go and as much as these conversations may be uncomfortable for men, the consequences of not having them are so much worse for women.

I think both men and women are very controlling in their very own ways, both believe their way is innocent and the other a sin.

I agree.