Davina McCall's tweet

[SummerWhisper]

Davina McCall tweeted that female abduction / murder is extremely rare and that this level of fearmongering isn't good for men's mental health.

I don't understand why she is attempting to shift the narrative back to how men are feeling after yet another woman's life has been brutally ended BY A MAN.

For fuck's sake, Davina, we have a prominent voice this week, a huge platform to raise awareness about how most of us have to make so many micro- and macro-adjustments to allow for men's violence and here you are, putting men's health in the centre of all this.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking she should apologise and remove her tweet?

I actually agree with her , it is extremely rare and your more likely to be attacked by someone you know .
It’s her opinion and she didn’t say anything offensive so get over it . You have a different opinion and that’s fine.

I agree with her.

Yes, you are being unreasonable and irrational. Someone has a different opinion and ideas to you. That's life. If she deleted the tweet (which she shouldn't) she'd still hold that opinion so you still wouldn't be happy with her, and guess what? You don't have to be. Scroll on by.

Leave her alone. There’s nothing actually wrong with the tweet and she’s already had a massive pile on from people wilfully misreading it. She’s very obviously talking about abduction and murder of women by men who aren’t known to them.

One of the things I am finding hard to cope with is this endless offense and cancel. We can't make people apologize, we can't delete people. I find all sorts of things offensive, not least Gammon. So I don't read, block and unfriend, move on. I also don't much like people who kill animals for fun or eat pork. Again. It's not my job to delete them from humanity. I think we need to put the brakes on this before it gets out of hand. All sides, all people. The culture of offence cancel and hate is at risk of clouding real issues. I am glad I am old and not starting out in the world. I am really quite distressed about it.

@HeartsAndClubs

But women are murdered all the time...what's different about this one that's made things change in the media? she was young, white, and pretty.

Yeah, such privilege she enjoyed, lucky woman

As the previous statement shows. Even a woman who was murdered innocently can't escape judgment. And judgment of us all for caring because of her background and ethnicity. I try so hard not to judge but that comment was offensive to me.

Yabu to post it here are make it into a thing. I wouldn't have read it if you hadn't.

I think people also got upset as she said she never walks alone late at night - ridiculous to say as she's a wealthy woman who never needs to.

There's been times when I've HAD to: late shift at work, no money for a cab. It's such a tone deaf tweet

@Kindperson

One of the things I am finding hard to cope with is this endless offense and cancel. We can't make people apologize, we can't delete people. I find all sorts of things offensive, not least Gammon. So I don't read, block and unfriend, move on. I also don't much like people who kill animals for fun or eat pork. Again. It's not my job to delete them from humanity. I think we need to put the brakes on this before it gets out of hand. All sides, all people. The culture of offence cancel and hate is at risk of clouding real issues. I am glad I am old and not starting out in the world. I am really quite distressed about it.

Agreed. I wonder how this is going to end. The logical outcome of all this offense-taking (the goalposts for which shift constantly) and cancelling is that there will be one "pure" person left standing. The winner! I wonder who it will be. Everyone will hate them, though.

Either that or a massive backlash is coming, and it's minorities who will suffer from it. A lot of the people who demand the cancelling dont' actually fall into that category, so they will be fine at the end of it all.

There are certain communities in this country who's women suffer in silence and rarely go to the police, if the women does exercise her right that does not conform to traditional or religious belief end up disappearing as in (they have gone back home )where in fact a so called (Honour Killing ) has taken place otherwise known as murder !

there have been some cases that have hit the headlines on the basis that the community have reported it but mostly they don't, so police have a very difficult time in dealing with this .. so no I don't believe this is a rare occurance its just that we are now using our voices very loud and clear this is NOT NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE and that it wasn't a random male it was a serving policeman who has been charged in this instance and this abuse should be met with outrage or are we becoming soo desensitised to womens abuse at the hands of a significant amount of men ? There have been serving police officers who have abused women whilst they were in custody and have been convicted accordingly ,there has also been a recent case of a male ambulance worker who was convicted of raping a girl+ girls in the ambulance whilst he was suppose to be caring for her/them we as women have the right to trust the men who are around us but very sadly we have to be on our guard all the time ...Davina has a right to her opinion albeit a rather naieve one

@savethewales

I remember the discussions following the terrorist attacks, you can’t tarnish everyone with the same brush - not all Muslims are terrorists and not all men are rapists and attackers

Yes. Well put.

It would be great if someone could answer a simple question without talking to people like dirt.

I live in England and I wasn't sure why this one particular case had received so much attention, so I'm not really surprised someone living in a different country didn't either.

@FortunesFave

Clymene I have NO idea why you're being snippy. The question I'm asking is why THIS murder has garnered such massive attention.

It's not an unreasonable question! It's maybe an academic one but it's not unreasonable NOR is it suggesting that it's fine to murder women fgs.

At a guess:

Friends and family waged a huge campaign to find her on social media, the local area etc at a much higher level than the police do (they also likely wouldn't have released anything for a few more days).

As sad and deplorable as any murder obviously is and it is never the victims fault, bur a lot of people probably resonated with walking home from a friend's house, taking precautions, and yet it still happened- which is scary.

When it turned out that a member of the Met was a suspect, that's bound to get a lot of coverage, and at that point those who had missed the social media appeals etc are likely to have become more aware. Also more worrying in some ways as many women who feel they are in danger would try and contact the police, or if they saw one feel safe.

Because she seemingly 'vanished into thin air', lots of people seemed to be discussing it to try and figure out what and how on earth anything happened.

Race and social status bias from the media likely to come into it, although can't be proven of course.

It's lockdown, a lot of people generally have more time on their hands, and it's easier to get absorbed into reading about something, especially as a lot of people are feeling anxious etc in general right now.

There are a load of reasons just in my opinion.

In regards to Davina, I do not agree with what she said but I don't think she should apologies and delete it either. Free speech is still (just about) a thing here.

[quote Eckhart]@savethewales

I remember the discussions following the terrorist attacks, you can’t tarnish everyone with the same brush - not all Muslims are terrorists and not all men are rapists and attackers

Yes. Well put.[/quote]
No one is saying it's all men, are they? But as nearly all women, every single one, has reported some level of harrasment etc, overwhelmingly committed by men, how can we try, as a society, to be better if we can't acknowledge that without the what about men sentiment?

@Potatgo well actually the Green Party are saying it’s all men by starting the discussion with a 6pm curfew for men, just to make a point.
It’s difficult to make a point which starts with grouping all men together.

@Losttheequipment

I really hate this notion that people are not allowed to have an unpopular opinion any more. It’s not in any way healthy for our society to seek to shut down an opinion that doesn’t conform to the mass rule one.

This, I don't agree with her personally but we should all be allowed to express our own opinions without fear of being "cancelled".

@savethewales

I’m starting to worry that this whole thing is being taken away from Sarah Everard and what tragically happened to her. We need to remember the main focus is that she died, and was killed by someone she should have been able to trust. It’s very dangerous ground taking the stance that all men are the same, responsible for the actions of a few. I remember the discussions following the terrorist attacks, you can’t tarnish everyone with the same brush - not all Muslims are terrorists and not all men are rapists and attackers.

Absolutely it is important to be respectful to Sarah Everard and her memory. But this has hit a nerve, and women have had enough of being afraid.

[quote savethewales]@Potatgo well actually the Green Party are saying it’s all men by starting the discussion with a 6pm curfew for men, just to make a point.
It’s difficult to make a point which starts with grouping all men together.[/quote]
Ah yes the highly influential Green Party. Aside from the fact she likely said it to make a point in response to calls for women to not go out at night; that view is not amplified anywhere, and was largely condemned on social media. If any of the big 3 parties said it then that would be different.

@Erkrie

People saying the vast majority of men harass and assault women.

Well either they do, or a minority of men are extremely busy. 🤔

Or... Something in between?

A minority commit serious assaults.
A larger minority commit more minor assaults.
A small majority verbally harass women.

(as you go up that list the previous tier is included - but not the one below)

Then a large minority of men who do nothing of the sort and wouldn't dream of doing so.

Trouble is, 95% of the time, the men in the top category are indistinguishable from the bottom.

My personal trainer (a young black man) and I chatted about racism and sexism in Britain yesterday. I've known him a few years now. He's a very emotionally intelligent young man, and has been hugely supportive of my weight loss, and despite our having close physical contact, I've never once felt uncomfortable with him. I'm certain that he wouldn't do such a thing. It was nice to have an open conversation with each side bringing experiences and perspective.

My belief is that the top two categories very much include the kind of men who assault other men or commit other criminal behaviour, including racism.

My degree specialism was genocide and war crimes, so this belief comes from studying the societal level of breakdown required for humans to do their very worst. But the principle is the same on the individual level - superiority and entitlement, and a belief that you can do as you please.

But it's binary, and of course a huge number of men fall into this category. Every single woman who posts on MN with a husband believes he's one of the exceptions, one would assume.

Davina is right, in my opinion, to point out that abduction and murder are rare crimes. Did Sarah Everard deserve what happened to her for simply walking home at night alone? No, of course she didn’t. For a start, nobody deserves what happened to her. I think it’s a bit of an overreaction though to talk about this kind of abhorrent behaviour as though all men are capable of it. A tiny minority. I’ve known two murderers in my life, both female. I think the obvious answer is for everyone to shun violence. Is it going to happen? No. Not while humans are humans.

I'm not listening to a woman who said a woman should never say no to sex.

My safety >>>> men's feelings.

Davina McColl said that? I did not know that. Holy crap!

Yeah, such privilege she enjoyed, lucky woman you’re being deliberately obtuse. You honestly think that if she’d been obese, older and possibly of a different race the story would have had the same amount of coverage? Don’t be so naive.

go and look up how many Eastern European women here disappear on a regular basis.

Go and look up how many high profile disappearances there have been in the media, and they are almost all individuals that are considered photogenic.

It has nothing to do with privilege.