Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

The meat in the canteen was admirable but annoying! Why should you get to dictate what everyone else eats?!
Sorry, not important but my first thought!😄

I think it’s great you feel so passionately. Why don’t you go into management? I’ve worked in management before and found enthusiastic, ideas people are great in theory but not understanding of the work involved, not willing to fully commit to one thing and see it through. Could you focus on one thing to change?

Depends on whether people want you to speak up for them or not.
If they are just having a moan- leave em to it. Maybe they don't want to be part of your crusades.

If your monthly emails haven't got anything changed - have you offered alternative solutions? Looked at costs of changing systems etc

It sounds as though you have some issues with control though IMO.

You feel passionate about stuff- the others probably don't. Loosen up and let go of things you cant change

Yes, that's a bit too much. You are creating additional work for other people on a regular basis, and acting like a business advisor, which presumably isn't part of your job description and requires specialist skills and training.

You sound very passionate and would be great in a more senior position making active changes. Do you want to do something different?

My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising - sorry to say but they kind of have to say this!

Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble. - Sadly this is usually the case.

Given your colleagues, the ones who are moaning, wont back you up when you raise issues I don't know why you keep on pushing. Just raise the issues that are really important to you not the ones others complain about.
You say you ask if 'there are alternatives we can look into'. Perhaps you need to take the initiative and find some alternatives yourself. It sounds like you are just raising problems and expecting others to fix them. You need to be coming up with solutions not just problems. Your current approach would wear down any manager and that means they stop listening to any of your complaints.

I suppose the thing that bothers me are that systems are introduced by those who don't use them. I don't want to change big things, just make things simpler. I work in healthcare so I know there's no money there. My idea this week was that we had a shared referral spreadsheet to help communication between two departments. This was due to a previous concern where two departments didn't know if the other had done something or not. Pretty basic stuff. Loads of people told me they struggled with this. Completely shut down by management.

Do not raise other people's issues, if they need guidance on how to do this themselves offer it to them but otherwise allow them to decide themselves if they wish to proceed.
Some people have a sneaky habit of making bombs and leaving others like yourself to fire them and take the hit.
If they're able to moan to you they're able to string the words together to raise it in a constructive manner.

Are you Meghan Markle?

Channel your efforts and passion by doing your job well and moving up the ladder, otherwise your efforts to flag things that need improving, which I assume isn't part of your remit, will be seen as moaning and undermining and probably is for your manager and colleagues tbh.

So every 3-4 weeks you complain to your managers in writing that something in your systems isn't good enough? Um. I think there are more constructive ways to channel your admirable energy for improvement, tbh. You risk being seen as a PITA even though your intentions are good.

I agree with PP - pick one thing to focus on and try to find out more, rather than complaining about every single thing. Instead of emailing to complain about it, ask whether your manager has time to talk you through why the existing system is used. If you still think there is a chance of a benefit to changing, you could offer up your idea and volunteer to be part of trying out a change?

A fresh view can be valuable (yours) but it will need to be balanced against all the business reasons why they've decided not to change it so far. We don't know the full picture, but I suspect you might not either, and going in with a curious enquiring attitude is more likely to get a positive response than going in with complaints.

Sometimes people have a moan, but don't actually want it raising formally, and know that they don't want the alternative or the fall out isn't worth it.

Also raising it and not mentioning names can come across as "I think this, but I'm phrasing it as others want it so I look like a good Samaritan purely with other people's views at my heart, and if there's fall out I can skip any blame."

But the bit that stood out to me was I write emails to the management probably once a month or less
You say that as though you think that is not very often. I'd have thought if that's raising different concerns each time was a huge amount.

I have a rule. I don't complain often, but when I do, I expect something to be done about it. And actually most people I have worked with, or dealt with in various capacities know that. So they know if I complain actually it's something to take seriously, and even if they disagree, they're usually happy to discuss it. I've very rarely not had a result I'm happy with.

Does no one else think there's a bigger issue with women (particularly those of the older generation) not wanting to question the knowledge of the (mostly male) management. Possibly also the older male management who are happy for us to do their scanning and take their calls but not as happy for us to question their abilities?

Does "management" include your direct line manager???

Fortunately I have a great line manager and I can raise moans/complaints/ideas/calling out on others shitness and rely on her to raise it in the best way to achieve the desired outcome that is best for the team.

I get pissed off at the moaners that never say anything either and then moan that nothing has changed!!

I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?

Um...the latter.

I'd only raise the ones that directly impact you and only in an email , with an alternative solution,hopefully cost free. Then leave it. Otherwise you're going to be seen as a pain. I had a female manager who was always into stuff that didn't affect her and had nothing to do with her role. She was hugely resented.

I was like this and got told I'm too opinionated and 'I always have something to say' instead of getting on with my job. On some occasions my ideas got passed to other (useless) teams and only implemented by them and I wasn't allowed an update on how it went 'because thats not my job', all whilst I was sat with no other work to do. I eventually got so worn down by management for it, my confidence and self esteem fully knocked, I went off sick with stress and kept to myself, eventually jumped at the opportunity for redundancy. Before, I did start looking for new jobs into change management but because my ideas never got implemented I couldn't show anything for it.

Personally not worth the stress to go above and beyond to try change things, you don't get rewarded, if things take longer then so be it.

@Woebegonad I have no time mindset for that to be honest. If you hate your job, look for another, if you think you're worth more money then ask for it, if you're bored, find something to do. Maybe that's why I struggle with them.

I think flagging issues is fine, but if you fully understand there are no resources or money to resolve the issue then you’re just whinging. Do you also speak out about things going well? What’s good? Or do you only feel compelled to discuss things that don’t work so well.

You say you feel compelled to find a solution, yet it’s not clear if you’re in a position to find such a solution, or even have the skill set or funds available to you to do so.

So yes, it’s frustrating if you constantly bother busy people with issues you know full well can’t be resolved, and just keep heaping new ones on. Raising even minor issues someone else has whinged about.

If indeed you’re able to sift through the noise, create a clear prioritisation list, and a proposal for a solution you know the company can undertake you’re not unreasonable,

If you’re still behaving like you were at school, complaining and campaigning with no thought to the wider ramifications then I’d say it’s unreasonable and attention seeking.

Just seen your update with your specific example - the idea in principle of improving communication between teams, and asking to explore how you can all use the existing shared systems better, is a great one.

But it's not a great way to get buy-in, announcing you have The Answer as if nobody else could have any opinions - you may get a better outcome if you ask for people's ideas and develop a solution together (this should be being done by your manager if there is an issue tbh).

@Bluntness100 are they busy though? We work in the same office, I see them everyday. I know who leaves earlier on a Friday.
I did enjoy my one celebration that I had at Christmas though, one tub between 30 admin staff. So there's that I guess.

As a manager I ask my team to bring me solutions, not problems. Always suggest a way things can be improved, never just complain.

If you have a solution, get buy in from those around you who use the systems before you escalate it. If you can say ‘I have spoken to team x and y who are in favour of the alternative and we have estimated this will save 8 hours a week of admin between us.’ Be specific and make it easy for management to sign up to.

You did ask so: you sound exhausting, irritating and without sufficient self insight to know when to shut up.

Why not just get on with your job instead of offering unwanted and probably unworkable solutions to problems only you seem to perceive need your input?

@MutteringDarkly I did try, spoke to my line manager who rose it in a team call, no suggestions, as usual everything is 'fine' so it wasn't taken any further. Depressing.

My idea this week was that we had a shared referral spreadsheet to help communication between two departments

Ok, so did you explore how that would work? How it would be maintained to ensure accuracy, data privacy, who would need access, how that would be maintained? Did you speak to a number of stake holders and understand the requirements associated with it, and come up with a plan for implementation that would ensure it was a useful, accurate and valid tool? Did you ensure it would not mean duplicate work for employees? They wouldn’t have to enter data twice?Cross with other systems for referrals? Did you do any home work at all and present it? Did you check that the data in it could not be mistakenly changed and cause patient issues? And confirm your findings and your proposal in full?

Or did you just fire an email saying “fuck me, I’m great, look at this idea?”.

The first, is unlikely to be knocked back. The second very likely too, if you demonstrate no knowledge of the implications of such a tool.

[quote TalkLessSmileMorePlease]@Bluntness100 are they busy though? We work in the same office, I see them everyday. I know who leaves earlier on a Friday.
I did enjoy my one celebration that I had at Christmas though, one tub between 30 admin staff. So there's that I guess.[/quote]
This is such an odd response to my post, which makes me think. Are you this tone deaf at work too? That you disappear down a rabbit hole, and don’t think things through properly?