Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

A lifetime ago I worked in healthcare admin, and everyone would moan about the systems, or how things were done and nothing ever, ever, ever changed because ‘it’s always been done/worked like this’ mentality.

Weirdly I kept thinking it would change. I offered up so many new ideas, I researched new systems, created training solutions, complained to management etc....for 7 years! It never did, and everyone still moaned.

Then one day I realised that banging my head against a brick wall wasn’t a great lifestyle choice and went to work in IT. So much better! They like new ideas and getting things done with systems that actually work. I also tripled my salary in 18 months.

Moral of the story - get a new job.

We all know how frustrating it is when something we don't agree with gets implemented at work by management who have little day-to-day working knowledge of the role(s) that will actually be affected by the changes.

But likewise there also needs to be a self awareness that this also works the other way round - as someone on the lower rung of the corporate ladder there'll be lots of info you aren't privy to therefore you'll always be forming your opinions based on incomplete information.

You sound like you'd be much better off starting your own business so you can run it exactly how you want to then dismiss your employees' opinions because you always know better

You sound an absolute busybody. Just stick to doing your job properly for a while. Nobody ever backs you up. Most people would get the hint. Seems like you dont.

I know you were a child and it's just an example, but I find the idea of banning meat at school for everyone quite irritating. What about choice?! As for a pp saying this is a great idea, what about the fact that it's the main, sometimes only, meal for some children. They may have limited tastes or may be in dire need of the nutrients in it, which might be very hard for a school canteen to replicate in a way that some children will eat.

Moral of the story - get a new job

Yup. Specifically one that is looking for someone to streamline things/look into new ways of working/manage people or become your own boss.

Small organisations are great for experience in overall business and organisation but those skills and mindset can be very hard to carry over into a larger organisations. There’s a lot more toes to tread on and personalities involved. You don’t have the same level of understanding of the overall objectives and issues that you get just by simply being present in a small company.

[quote Helen8955]**@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.

I just wanted to say I think this is GREAT!!! Well done you! Especially as you did these things when you were a child :)

@1AngelicFruitCake -- it's not about dictating what other people eat, I don't know what OP's reasons were then but a few good reasons for getting school canteens to ban meat are about stopping/reducing the unnecessary slaughter of innocent animals and the destruction of the planet. Also another study just came out the other day about how bad meat is for human health! Schools should be encouraging people to eat less meat!

I agree with you though that maybe OP should work in a management role :)

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@TalkLessSmileMorePlease - I think it's good that you stand up to people and make suggestions. I fall into the category of women who don't want to be a 'bother' but I don't want to keep being like this - I want to learn to be more assertive and stop being afraid of conflict!

So maybe it's true that you need to pick your battles (just to not exhaust yourself) but I just wanted to say that i think you should keep being assertive and keep raising issues as much as you want to. That's the only way we can change things in a workplace/in this world!![/quote]
Good points but what about the reasons for eating meat? I think personal choice is a really important lesson to learn in primary school.
Think it’s great OP did that but I wouldn’t be bringing that up years later!

Please may I offer another perspective?

I work in upper management in a large corporate, and have some experience of managing people who sound a little like you - in my head I used to badge them as “problem finders”, and oftentimes I would find their insight very useful but the extent to which I could do something about the problems they identified was, frankly, limited. Reasons for not taking forward ideas included:

• we’ve tried this idea before and it didn’t work for the following reasons
• the costs (money, resources, system downtime, retraining, etc) of making the changes outweigh the benefits
• there are restrictions elsewhere in the system that the requester hasn’t taken into account that mean it’s not feasible
• this idea hasn’t been properly worked through
• there are already plans in train to update systems or processes in the following weeks or months
• we have other priorities right now and there isn’t the bandwidth to add this to the list.

I try hard to give reasons for decisions, but I don’t always have time myself to go into the detail. If someone was coming to me monthly (monthly!) with problems that others weren’t also complaining about then I suspect I would probably stop giving answers much beyond “thanks but no thanks”.

It sounds like you have very low emotional intelligence combined with arrogance, which is a really bad mix. I'm trying to think of a type of workplace/industry where that type of personality would thrive... maybe somewhere with a lot of young male grads?

Young graduates are often a bit like this - think they know it all and everyone else is behind the times and stuck in their ways. After a few years they realise it isn't quite as simple as they thought and they aren't underappreciated geniuses!

Keep your head below the parapet, don’t rock the boat, never try to change things or you will be sacked

I don't think anyone is saying that

Yes they are. Somebody explicitly said that the OP was wrong to ‘raise her head above the parapet’ because she was ‘putting herself in the cross hairs of management’

No that's not what people mean.

Yes, it is. See above.

For anyone telling the OP that she cannot possibly make a suggestion until she has secured the buy in of all her colleagues...eh? Have you ever worked with blockers? They usually pour cold water on everything because they might have to do something different or engage with difficult problems. I don’t expect my problem solvers to come to me saying, “I’ve spent six months persuading everyone in the finance service centre that this is a good idea”. Good ideas are assessed from the perspective of the business, not whether all the employees like it.

Whilst I understand your frustration is this not something you should discuss with your manager - probably at your appraisal? I have often heard ideas that were put forward with great enthusiasm but did not actually solve a problem anyone else was having, and generally involved other people doing quite a lot of work.

There are companies that are more responsive that the one you are with. A charity I support has just received a lovely donation which came from a company that 'gives' employees thousands of pounds to nominate to charities for coming up with significant cost saving ideas. Don't have to be big ideas, just have a big impact.

Truthfully, you sound hard work rather than productive.

I run a big team - you would get in my nerves and I would stop listening because I would think you moaned about everything. As a result when you have something important to say it will get lost. I would suggest you join an employee forum - you can then deliver messages from the employees through the forum and you could be a real asset to the business

[quote TalkLessSmileMorePlease]@Bluntness100 so immature not wanting to slaughter thousands of animals, god how embarrassing was I?[/quote]
You are missing the point, you were immature to think you could dictate what other people eat.

I empathise with you OP, I have this tendency myself!

Whatever I do, I get really involved with how things can be improved - it’s the way I am, and I love to problem-solve. However over the years I’ve realised it can be exhausting for those around me, and also is quite tiring for me.
It seems to me that the majority of people just like a quiet uncomplicated time at work, and I’ve learned to control this part of myself a bit. Before meetings, or responding to emails, I quietly tell my self to hold back and let other people do things for themselves, and if I do make suggestions accept that people have the right not to take my ideas further. It can also be helpful to offer to take ideas forward yourself and not just expect others to take on your suggestions and do the work on implementation.
Now and again taking a step back if you feel yourself about to offer an unrequested suggestion. It can feel quite liberating not being the self-appointed problem-solver!

@AlexaShutUp

I used to manage someone like you. She was great - really good at what she did and passionate about improving stuff, but a bit low on emotional intelligence. She pissed people off, unfortunately, because she didn't know when to speak out and when to let things go.

Sometimes, the issues that she raised were really important. Sometimes, they were trivial and a bit of a waste of time. Sometimes, the important issues got lost within the trivial ones. My advice to her was to keep raising stuff when it was important, but to choose her battles wisely.

Yeah I had a friend like this who in all honesty struggled to function well in work settings. She just could choose the things to let go. I think as adults we need to work out what is important. This friend would have problems with everything and anything. But this made it hard to know what was important with complaints and what wasn't.

She had loads of jobs and couldn't settle with things! She has some lovely qualities but was just hard work. I also think although she was trying to make things better she probably came across as entitled. As it seemed like she couldn't possibly tolerate things being not to her pleasing.

And also it's got to be said - if as a ten year old you thought you could dictate what others eat then I do think you have a bit of an issue

OP having ideas are great but you need
a) thé right environment/job where people are open to ideas
b) the knowledge of whom to bring ideas to ... just emailing managers won’t cut it

The issue isn’t with your attitude but your awareness of the work place - if you really care about having your ideas heard move jobs , or be smarter about it.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

@Iamthewombat tbh whilst I don’t disagree there have been some posts displaying the tone you’ve picked up on, the general gist I’ve got is ‘if you’re going to say something, make sure it’s worth saying’ and to have an awareness of how everyone’s role fits in with one another’s.

Raising issues, especially a range of different ones, on a regular basis isn’t particularly helpful or productive. It’s just spitting a stream of issues onto the table without properly thinking any one thing through to identify successful ways to tackle things.

It’s also okay for a solution to be rejected by a team if it’s not going work, the problem is still there so when OP is talking about her referral/spreadsheet solution she needs to start thinking of ways to either make it easier/more appealing or a completely different solution. In that specific situation her manager is always going to have the final call and I honestly think she needs to start thinking about getting into a similar role if she wants to be able to implement strategies like that.

Maybe you could look for a job where you get to speak up for people- in activism or something. Sounds like your talents are there and wanting to be used but you're not in the right place for it.

YABU and YANBU. Many organisations are resistant to change but you have to judge when the mood and opportunity is right for change. Or get a job where you are actually in charge of making changes!

You also have to learn when and how to bring people with you. Having conviction and passion for a cause which is so inflexible you don't consider other points of view will rarely be successful. So, for example your vegan idea, you could have started with "vegan Mondays" and gone from there.

You sound great, with a little coaching and critical self-awareness I am sure you could be a real force for positive change.

Sorry you sound annoying, ban meat in the cafeteria why should everyone else be vegetarian because you are.

You sound like emotionally intelligent and very passionate and driven(highly motivated) person .

Wow at such a young age aswell
I am very impressed you had so much Cofindence and awareness of ethical issues at that Age.

As it comes natural to you,
look into the many charties out there that are to do with ethical /envoriment wild life Conservation issues ,
Look up on the internet and make a note of tv adverts about Animal wildlife etc issues when they come on,

Also have you thought of getting involved in charitable /or professional role of Advocacy of some kind, for working in a union or Human resources or within a Human rights charity like Amnesty international charity or other charties such as involving the welfare of vulnerable people etc.

The world certainly needs more people like you.

I wish I was much more like you about speaking up about issues that I am passionate

I just do not have the Cofindence yet
Due to having a shit childhood growing up in care in children's homes ,thankfully I was adopted eventually.

I am kind of like you in that I see problems and solutions very easily. Where we differ though is that I learned at a young age that nobody really wants to know. People like to piss and moan but they don't like change. Just listen, nod, go uhuh and file it in your mental trash can or it will drive you bonkers to see nothing getting done about it.

Don't get me wrong, there are employers and work colleagues who really do know what the word team means but they are few and far between.

It's sad that those lower down the hierarchy might have brilliant ideas that will never get listened to but that is the real world for you.

Some will fight to be heard of course and a few will suceed but it's ball achingly difficult.

I would just go ahead and change things. If this spreadsheet would make a big difference for the admin staff, suggest it to them, get them on board and then just do it. Why keep asking permission?