Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

Well my response was based on people seemingly suggesting that it's dead easy to be a Business Analyst, all you need is a bit of training and OP would be dead good at it as she likes to point out things thar are wrong.

I was just trying to suggest that it's not as straightforward as that and strong interpersonal skills are needed as many stakeholders are resistant to change for many reasons . I would have said the same if OP was male or female.

Why do I think OP doesn't have strong interpersonal skills? Well for a start she keeps using the same modus operandi - sending emails- even though it doesn't seem to have produced a great amount of success. She also doesn't seem to value her colleagues time very much - manager is apparently paid enough to read these monthly emails.

I didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but as a person who has worked in charge for many years I think it's helpful enough to point out that soft skills are a huge part of the job and are difficult to be taught in, if you do things completely differently.

This is nothing to do with the OP being a woman (if indeed they are a woman).

Er, it is. This is a women’s site. The vast majority of people posting here are women. The majority of people on this thread have told the OP to pipe down, know her place, realise that ‘management know best’ etc etc. And calling her a time waster, disruptive, telling her that she can’t get on with people, telling her that her ideas are pointless and so on.

A bit like this:

More like a disruptive person in a workplace wasting their, their colleagues and their managers time with pointless "improve,ents" that aren't thought through.

Ok, so perhaps the OP is a woman. Perhaps her manager is a woman. Perhaps her colleagues are also women. At what point can it then become about trying to find the best way to channel a person's energy and ideas to achieve the change? People on here are suggesting that some additional influencing skills, relationship building etc, could help the OP be less isolated and give the ideas a far greater chance of succeeding. If a person keeps raising ideas and neither their manager nor their colleagues support those ideas, maybe there are reasons for that - perhaps the ideas themselves, or perhaps the way they're presented. It makes sense to explore both, if you're really committed to changing the situation.

If you are still reading OP - I think the problem is the sheer number of problems you have identified and sent different levels of solutions for. Some might be great, some might not work due to more complex issues you aren't aware of - but if you send / raise a complaint with a half thought out solution monthly (or more frequently), then the email will hit your boss' inbox as the latest missive from his hard work staff member and not properly considered.

Heres an idea - its March - unless there's a serious problem (as in something that means you are completely unable to do your job / deliver the service you are paid for), then do not raise a complaint or offer an improvement idea for 6 months. Until the next school year starts in September. Can you try to bite your tongue.

If a colleague is complaining to you about something smile nod and refuse to be drawn into saying you find it annoying/problematic too - just say "you really should mention it to [manager]. " do not get involved with letting management know or finding solutions.

If you stop being the person who constantly tries to change things - essentially making more work for managers in the short term - then when you have an amazing idea, its more likely to be listened to.

@Iamthewombat oh come on, we all know men post on here too!

And I stand by what I said because in my 30 years in various workplaces I've met a lot of people who fit that description.

And sometimes management do know best. I know that goes against the general opinion that everyone jn management is overpaid and underworked (apart from those high flying husbands earning the 6 figures of course), but mostly the people who hold those positions tend to know a little bit more about the true picture in that organisation than the admin staff. Often, in healthcare, as I mentioned previously, we actually ask patients to help with service improvements and new pathways - so what might look like an improvement to a junior member of staff may actually be a challenge to a patient accessing the service.

I'm a manager in healthcare. Most staff under my level of mgt under estimate the amount of work I actually have to do and overestimate the amount of power they think I might have to change things.

Am email every month raising a new issue sounds exhausting and also like you are just flitting around finding things to moan about. Pick one issue or topic you feel enthusiastic about and work on that - but make sure it's something that's in the gift of the team/ manager to actually change. Perhaps see if you can have it agreed as an actual objective?

Enthusiastic staff can be a real benefit but only if channelled - u already sound frustrated with how things are going so perhaps step back and rethink your approach? Have u asked your manager what they need help with? What project might they need help with? What issues are concerning them that u can help with?

Try to stop focusing on others in your team as well - what they might be saying to you is often vastly different to what they're saying to their manager

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease the thread was summarised 'Should I just shut up at work?'. You've received some fairly extreme views from both sides of the discussion.

To recap:
you are in a junior role paid £10/hour or so;
you regularly identify inefficiencies or opportunities to improve existing processes from your perspective in the team;
you speak up for colleagues who have a moan to you about their operational problems too.

None of these attributes is problematic of itself. Consider the balance though:
you were recruited to a £10/hour role where, presumably, the tasks required of you and the time required to complete these tasks each day/week is fairly well defined;
you are 'encouraged' by your line manager to pursue your suggestions -indeed some have been implemented- but you still end up sending a nearly monthly email to management on suggested improvements;
your colleagues don't speak to back up their issues you've raised on their behalf in meetings.

This suggests there are probably 3 middle of the road options to address each of these major points:

1. Discuss with your line manager what is expected to be achieved by you in your role and how much scope there is for process improvement. Telling you not to take it further suggests a line manager is not interested in you showing them up as not having noticed simple improvements themselves. Yours appears to be giving you enough rope to hang yourself though -encouraging you 1-2-1 but not backing you up in how to raise this up the chain for effective change management. This suggests they are probably weary of the pace of suggestions you raise, OR you haven't listened to their input on the much raised point here 'choose your battles'. Are you able to have a monthly 1-2-1 session which (briefly!) covers off your latest great ideas, and then your line manager helps you identify ones which are worth taking forward? Then set out the additional steps you need to take to impact assess your idea on other teams' work/resource needed to implement/who to consult/how best to raise it to achieve success. A good line manager would help coach you through this process. Unless of course they think "ffs I've just hired someone at £10 an hour to do the scanning and phones, I don't care if they could save 10 minutes a week walking to the stationery cupboard to get leaflets when needed - keeping them there means 500 leaflets a month aren't nicked off front desk and saves us £ hundreds in reprinting". You haven't positioned the nature of your suggestions, so the reality could be anywhere on this spectrum.

1. You could be tone-deaf to your line manager's existing feedback on which points are worth pursuing and they have already reached the 'smile and nod' stage in dealing with you - suggesting you email more senior managers rather than crushing your enthusiasm with a more direct NO. Fine tune your listening skills and try to determine why you are pursuing a fruitless approach of monthly emailing. Again, pick your battles! Figure out what your line manager can really get behind so your time writing up suggestions is better spent, and the outcome more fruitful. Paring things down will mean the more important items are more likely to be listened to, taken seriously, and acted on. As others have said, gather information about the impact on others' work as well as your own and propose a rounded solution.

1. Again, as others have said, fight your own battles. You haven't been hired as a process improvement consultant, and while others' moans might or might not add to business efficiencies, you don't need to advocate for them. Focus on what helps you to deliver your own role well - and better - and leave it at that until you've been asked to look more widely for improvement targets as a result if your track record.

If you think that more training in this area could lead to a career switch, go for it!

But if you think having the bright ideas, and telling 'managment' to fix them is how it works, button it and do what you have been hired for!

I'm the first person to support process improvements and personal development through training.

It's also entirely possible you are just a whiny PITA to manage.

Both extremes are possible - reflect on yourself and decide where on the range you sit, and what personal change you are going to implement to move things on...

I once had a director tell me to ‘bring me solutions, not problems!’ Best career advice I ever had.

Try that tack OP - you may find it gets you the results you’re looking for.

@rosiejaune
Are you seriously saying nobody should eat meat and equating it with racism?

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

Why are people acting as if veggie primary schools aren't a thing. My kids go to one, and they eat meat. No one needs to eat meat three times a day. Plus for the paltry amount of money allocated to a child for one meal making it veggie means that you are making it go further and can buy better quality ingredients. My kids love sausages and pizza and they have never once complained about their school meals. It actually is easier as we live in an area with lots of religious and cultural groups and veggie pleases all so you don't have to have pork sausages, chicken sausages and veggie sausages. Also it means the kids who've never seen a butternut squash or a leek actually try them and don't just go for chips every time. It's not for everyone but I don't know why everyone gets so het up about kids missing out on shit quality meat for lunch. Veggie is like school uniform for the gut. Plus better for the planet if you go for straight veg and not meat alternatives.

You're now sounding insufferable if you want your children to be vegetarian or vegan go for it. Please spare me your attitude that just because children eat meat they don't eat vegetables my now teen kids were eating asparagus, squash avocado etc from babies. I think your work colleagues are quite restrained I would tell you to STFU!

This thread has been a real eye opener. How many women’s ideas or desire to improve things, even just in their own workplaces, have been squashed down by other women? Quite spitefully too, if this thread is representative.

I think most people have been pointing out the OP options

1. Carrry on as she is
   Downside here is OP is already very neagtive about co-workers and managment and bitterness and frustration tend to only grow and the rising issues seems to have little impact.

2. Find a more effective way forward - so pick battles, find other support come with solutions etc
   Downside it still may not work - upside it might

3. Decide it is the role/department/company
   So work out a plan to change job/move department/change sector this may take time money and effort.

4. stop and just do the job
   Downsides - could leave OP very frustrated. Most people I know who do this are either working on option 3 behind the scenes, are near retirement and worry about being made to go before they want (that affects men and women IME) or are putting up with the situation - sometime due to external factors such as needing family friendly hours and I think that does tend to affect women more.

This thread has been a real eye opener. How many women’s ideas or desire to improve things, even just in their own workplaces, have been squashed down by other women? Quite spitefully too, if this thread is representative.

It's nearly always men that behave like the OP. I'm surprised by this thread too - many people don't seem to have come across this type before and know it's all about them and their ego, not actually about making things better. The 'encouraging' posts will be doing the OP no favours at all.

@Iamthewombat

It might not be lovely, but it is realistic. The toddler like attention seeking weekly emails combined with scorn for others will not effect the change OP wants. I work in a female only team and not everyone is ignored in the way the colleague similar to OP is. Any good ideas will not get taken up as they came from the toxic team member.

I share your frustrations OP! I feel like I often suggest cost effective solutions that are shut down for illogical reasons. I too wonder if I should just head down and get on with own role and never try to improve things, but I’m really passionate and like things to be as good as they can be! I think we just have to be savvy and pick our battles really - don’t give up and lose your passionate spark, but perhaps choose specific things you want to improve or ask to be given a specific “project” that you can own from start to finish. Important also to not step on any toes or make suggestions where the issue is under someone else’s management - as that’s frustrating for them.

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

Does no one else think there's a bigger issue with women (particularly those of the older generation) not wanting to question the knowledge of the (mostly male) management. Possibly also the older male management who are happy for us to do their scanning and take their calls but not as happy for us to question their abilities?

Of course there is.

I have learnt though, that the best way to get people to do things is to make them think it was their idea. I know that is super manipulative, an we shouldnt have to do it, but if what you are doing isnt raising results, do something different. It can backfire, in my last job it was mentioned in my appraisal that i was a good worker but needed to take the initiative more . So you do need to strike a balance.