Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

Maybe instead of just raising issues, you could bring some solutions to the table also?
You may find people more willing to listen to you then.😎

I don’t think you’re wrong per se OP, but I think that you need to accept people are different, they want different things out of work, and that the best workplaces contain a mix of people.

A workplace composed of only people like OP would be unbearable - non-stop half-thought out changes, not to mention the earnestness, the passion....

But also a workplace that was solely composed of people who couldn’t be arsed to think of and suggest changes, and who did their set tasks and nothing more wouldn’t be great either. It would be pretty boring and lacklustre I think.

So - you need a mix of people types, which will mean that sometimes people do rub others up the wrong way, get frustrated etc.

Also from my experience a lot of passionate and enthusiastic ideas people like OP don’t see things through. They want the initial plaudits from management for being proactive and innovative, but when it comes to sorting out the details and practicalities of their big ideas they suddenly lose interest and direct their energies elsewhere.

I think you’re just speaking your mind and if you have rubbish systems ( which I also have at my place of work) then you’re just trying to make things right.
We need more people like you! Would be nice to have some back up though I think from your perspective.

Not saying don't do it, just pick your battles

One simple piece of advice I was given that actually is useful to bear in mind is to “pick your battles”.
I think you sound admirable. The world is divided into people who can’t be bothered and have no imagination, and will let all sorts of wrongs slide by because they want an easy, lazy life; and doers who spot the wrongs and go out of their way to do something about them.
Sounds like there’s a fair bit of misogyny at your company and a lot of “Peters” raised above their level of competence.
With your energy it sounds like you might be better off working for yourself.
Good luck.

You sound exhausting. Can't you just put your suggestions in the Suggestions box? I agree with Daphnise.

Are you simply raising concerns, or are you offering viable solutions, as well? That makes a huge amount of difference. Of course, it takes a good bit of work ahead of actually voicing a concern.

Effective communication with management entails clearly and concisely stating, "X is a problem. However, if we implement A, B, & C, X disappears, and the company will save umpty pounds over a period of five years." If you offer a problem, a solution, and a bottom-line savings, you'll get much farther.

If you say you have your manager support, I would do the following:

1. Make a list of all suggestions you've done in past 12 months that you feel are still relevant
2. Book a meeting with your manager to review them and agree which are most valid / useful from their perspective (maybe 2-3 items)
3. Ask them to back you up on following up with the proposals. Which does not mean saying : yeah, keep going, as they are basically throwing you under the bus. That means backing up your email. With their personal follow up / chaser, saying eg. 'As per x email, I think raised solutions to existing issues are a good idea. What can we do to implement it?'

Putting their name alongside your request gives you credibility and shows support. If they are not able to do it, then leave it. Your manager is not supportive and probably comments on your 'overeagerness' behind your back with others.
Alternatively, you pick one issue, focus solely on that until it is resolved. And do not raise anything new until it happens. If you cannot succeed with one, you can't with any, so what's the point of making more noise just for the sake of it? I do not want to sound harsh, but I really understand where you are coming from as I can be similar, but alternatively you have to start thinking about yourself as well as trying to help others. So don't sacrify your time, energy and reputation for fruitless struggle. Good luck!

I think it’s the way you are going about it. I used to work in a bank in the LEAN department. What they did was review processes by taking unnecessary steps out thereby streamlining them saving time and money. To get something changed you need to suggest the change and prove it will be better for the business.

Suggest a suggestion box and then people can anonymously write their own opinions down. I’d stop voicing others grievances in fairness let them do it.

Have you considered training to become a business analyst? This would give you skills and tools to communicate your observations and suggestions in a positive way. There are lots of ways to become qualified as a BA - do a google search for courses.

Haha you sound like me! I know I'm being annoying but I just can't stand by if I don't agree with something. Everyone I work wigh is very placid and goes with the flow but I'm just not. I've realised though I'm glad I've got a voice and I'm not just a sheep (which is what they want)

The best way to effect change is from the inside and with support. Everyone should campaign for changes which really matter to them, but you still need to pick a specific battle, get your manager onside and enlist support. Listen to constructive criticism and take it on board, incorporate it into your updated suggestion. This is what grownups do. How old are you out of interest, because you still sound like the attention seeking 10 year old you once were. I have someone in my team who does exactly the same as you and it is truly exhausting. You will be automatically ignored, if you’re not already, if you don’t change your approach.

It seems like OP just wants the attention and glory of coming with ideas+ solutions, but not the hard work of implementation.
In my company suggestions are welcome but you suggest it - you own it - which means getting buy-in from users, THEN presenting to management, THEN spending extra man-hours in overseeing the implementation and all the nitty-gritty. It isn't a question of just suggesting and leaving it up to management to solve.
If OP is firing off an idea every month how well thought through is it? If it's something simple like a spreadsheet get a few people to start using it, if it saves them time others will follow w/o needing convincing. This is what happened to a team I'm currently working with - software written by one dev to save time, other people wanted it, it's now grown into being used all over the firm.
If she has enough time to email a new idea every month she either has not undertaken any work w.r.t to feasibility, OR her job is too easy and she has nothing to do and is bored.
I suspect a career in actual change etc wouldn't suit the OP... she'd have the same complaining about stakeholders etc being too difficult to deal with and flounce off. It takes real thick skin, and isn't one for the attention seeking.

Oh and those agreeing with your approach, who are proud not to be sheep/placid/lazy/unassertive/nail filers - grow up, you need to work within the system to change it.

How old are you out of interest, because you still sound like the attention seeking 10 year old you once were. I have someone in my team who does exactly the same as you and it is truly exhausting. You will be automatically ignored, if you’re not already, if you don’t change your approach.

What a lovely thing to say!

It seems like OP just wants the attention and glory of coming with ideas+ solutions, but not the hard work of implementation.

We don’t know this. What evidence is there that the OP has the wrong motivation for suggesting changes, or that she doesn’t want to see them through?

This thread has been a real eye opener. How many women’s ideas or desire to improve things, even just in their own workplaces, have been squashed down by other women? Quite spitefully too, if this thread is representative.

I'm a bit like you OP without the campaigning as a child. You have systems introduced by people who don't use them. I work with people who don't use systems/procedures brought into use.

It's been a frustration of mine for many years and last week I told the Manager that I am not coping with seeing and dealing with mistakes made all the time by my colleagues. I'm no Mary Poppins but I try to adhere to procedures and if I do make a slight error I apologise to the person and ensure I put it right. I'm fed up of apologising for other people's shortcomings, laziness and slapdash ways.

As a result I've been promised we'll have a staff meeting. I've been in my job for just over 11 years and this is about the 4th meeting we've had! We only have meetings when something has gone wrong. We never have meetings/training to prevent issues happening.

I know a meeting is all well and good but will anything really be done?

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease I was like this in a previous role and it literally never got me anywhere 👎 It was so frustrating and I felt like you, that I was the annoying one and that I was doing something wrong. Once I left I realised that I wasn’t doing anything wrong by raising my concerns or challenging practices, it was just that the management didn’t like it and/or couldn’t be bothered to do anything about it. In the end I changed careers and now do something I much prefer.

Hi,
I don’t think you are in the wrong, you’re just banging your head against a system wall. It can be so difficult to make significant change when you are in an organisation that tends to smother ideas for improving from their frontline staff. Yes, you might get a bit of support ...as management don’t want to ‘disempower’ staff. However, you need to ask yourself what difference are you making???
Put your effort into getting the qualifications and experience for a change role....or move across to a company that will enable team members to make improvements themselves.
You need to put your money where your mouth is though. Can you volunteer to test out some of the smaller changes you want to make?

@Iamthewombat
Why do you think people angling for change create petitions, campaign, use social media platforms?
Because ideas are nothing without anyone behind them.
The OP keeps banging her head against the wall using 'official' channels like email, team meetings, etc and it's not working.
She needs to talk to people individually ; get something in writing ; build a relationship with one or two specific people in senior management who will push at least one idea through.
Or as I mentioned earlier ; get a few people to start implementing simple ideas (like the spreadsheet), if they really like it word will spread of its own accord!
As a graduate in an organisation I had a similar situation and solved it by a lot of talking - to my colleagues, to senior management, senior people, and I eventually pushed change through smoothly. I didn't need to be told to do this, it was common sense. It was a LOT of hard work - when one way didn't work I tried another!
Getting change through requires subtlety, social awareness and a fair degree of emotional control. Which the OP lacks. Hence why she sounds like a petulant child ("nobody is listening to meeeeeeee").
If just speaking up was enough to solve world problems then it would be dead easy.

Incidentally a majority of the change /project managers in many organisations are women because we are better at dealing with such complexity, talking to people.
Ironically the OP doesn't seem to have any
Also at the end of the day if a place doesnt suit you... leave...

It sounds like you have some good ideas that may make things easier for you and your co-workers. But perhaps you need to be more selective as to which issues you feel need addressing. If you are continually raising issues, people will start ignoring every suggestion you make, even when some suggestions are innovative and helpful.

I also think it is unreasonable of you to believe that your values should be everybody else's - eg campaigning to ban meat in a canteen. I have some sympathy with your views re vegetarianism and I think it would be reasonable to suggest that more vegetarian alternatives should be available. But to try and impose your views as to what other people should eat is not reasonable. In my view, it is counter-productive and just gets people's backs up.

Getting change through requires subtlety, social awareness and a fair degree of emotional control. Which the OP lacks. Hence why she sounds like a petulant child ("nobody is listening to meeeeeeee").
If just speaking up was enough to solve world problems then it would be dead easy.

The question I asked was, what evidence do we have that the OP has the wrong motivation for seeking change (you alleged that she was looking for ‘attention and glory’) and what evidence we have that she wouldn’t do ‘the hard work of implementation’.

You haven’t answered that but you have called the OP petulant and childish, which is nice. You have no idea whether she is petulant or childish. That she vents on an anonymous forum doesn’t mean that she does it in her workplace, and nor does venting on an anonymous forum make her petulant and/or childish. Do you jump into other threads telling people that they are petulant and childish for venting?

Incidentally a majority of the change /project managers in many organisations are women because we are better at dealing with such complexity, talking to people. Ironically the OP doesn't seem to have any

Aha! Now we come to it. You are one of those people who thinks that nobody can possibly do your terribly important skilled job unless they are exactly like you. Nobody could ever do it better with a different set of skills and the OP should know her place. No aspiring to your Olympian heights, eh?

Also at the end of the day if a place doesnt suit you... leave...

That’s right. Don’t ever try to change anything or suggest improvements where you work. Just leave. I am regularly reminded, when reading threads like these, why we fall behind the Japanese and the Germans in productivity and innovation. Attitudes like these, from somebody who works in change. Christ.

@Iamthewombat instead of engaging with my reply - you seem to have cherry-picked specific parts to jump on. This is an anonymous forum, we only have what the OP wrote to go on. That much anger can’t do you much good - if you’re having a bad day I hope you feel better soon.
Just two things to leave you with:

1. I don’t work in change :)
2. Japanese work culture is very strictly hierarchical

Don’t worry, I’m not angry. It’s you accusing the OP of being petulant and childish, based on no evidence, remember?

This thread has been a real eye opener. How many women’s ideas or desire to improve things, even just in their own workplaces, have been squashed down by other women? Quite spitefully too, if this thread is representative.

This is nothing to do with the OP being a woman (if indeed they are a woman). More like a disruptive person in a workplace wasting their, their colleagues and their managers time with pointless "improve,ents" that aren't thought through.

The one who worked for me was male. Spent so much time thinking up new ways to do things that he didn't do his actual job.

It's also interesting how people are using this thread to do the usual public sector bashing, when the OP clearly stares they work in the private sector.