Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

You need to get yourself into a position where you can make a difference OP.
Anyone can complain but are you actually suggesting solutions?

Don’t be everyone else’s mouth piece - let them talk for themselves.

If you’re passionate about something AND have solutions AND approach the issue in a professional manner then fine, go for it.
If not all of those 3 conditions apply then keep your big gob shut

@Daphnise I do my job. I take my £10 an hour and jog on home, happy that I know I tried. Senior management are paid enough to put up with a monthly email from a mouthy little shit like me. I don't feel bad for them.

I used to manage someone like you. She was great - really good at what she did and passionate about improving stuff, but a bit low on emotional intelligence. She pissed people off, unfortunately, because she didn't know when to speak out and when to let things go.

Sometimes, the issues that she raised were really important. Sometimes, they were trivial and a bit of a waste of time. Sometimes, the important issues got lost within the trivial ones. My advice to her was to keep raising stuff when it was important, but to choose her battles wisely.

@AlexaShutUp if it was in dentistry then thanks for the reference

Op I think you need to learn your place and reading situations. Why do you feel the need to fix everything, even things that are not your place or problem?
Are you wanting the recognition for doing amazing things or pointing out issues? With the petition at 11yo, who are you decide what others eat??
Just give it a rest. People are not taking you seriously, because they have become annoyed and frustrated with you. That's a shame, because you probably do have some very good ideas and solutions but people are not listening because they are already annoyed.

I was a bit like you when I was younger but my boss had a quiet word with me to warn that if I kept streamlining everything, there wouldn’t be enough work to go round & redundancies would be made 😬

AlexaShutUp if it was in dentistry then thanks for the reference

No, not dentistry! I'm terrified of dentists!

It's hard to tell if you're bossy or everyone else feels same but don't want grief for it & happy to let you take the flack. Maybe you belong with a different type of employer who wants to change & improve.

Why do you feel like it's your job to raise other people's issues for them?

People moan about their jobs. Always have, always will. Doesn't mean they're miserable or should find something else - when you do something for 40+ hours a week there's bound to be things that annoy you. But there's a difference between moaning amongst colleagues and actually going to management about it.

Raise your own issues if you have them, but just let other people be. If they feel strongly enough to speak to management, they're more than capable of doing that themselves.

I think you are on the road to getting fed up with your job and wanting to work somewhere more effectively run.

You will need to change your environment, not yourself. (When the time comes.)

Part of it is confidence I guess. I've had opportunities and learning experiences which have made me realise that if you think something then very often a lot of other people are thinking it too.
Also I've been lucky enough to work in lots of small businesses from the start up stage which has given me insight into things that do and don't work. I've always had to innovate. If you've always worked in a big corporation then that can be daunting.
My colleagues have taught me loads about working in a big corporation and the strange hierarchy. I still struggle with it to be honest. I still imagine the manager as someone who has an idea and works hard to make it a reality, not someone who turns up for the paycheck and has probably been beaten down by their own managers over the years.

If you’re looking for feedback your assumptions about your colleagues characters jumped out at me. Take from that what you will.

Otherwise to echo other posters don’t champion causes that aren’t your own but guide others on how to if they approach you and yes, proposed solutions need to be thoroughly thought out and presented.

Tbh I don’t think you’re in the right role for what you believe is your strength. Large organisations (I’m presuming NHS) work by everybody working within the boundaries of their roles and taking over specific duties or gaining qualifications as they move up the totem pole. There isn’t much room for trying to shift entrenched policies and procedures in a large organisation because the ripple effect is also large and will be felt in departments that you have little to do with normally.

I think there's a few issues at play...

1. Companies, even the ones who say they're committed to improvement, hate when they have to change things. They tend to go for the path of least resistance, even if it's not efficient.

1. You sound a TINY bit overbearing about it - well-meaning, but perhaps a little hard work. There's a hard balance to strike at work between 'causing a problem' and 'let's just leave everything as it is even though it's bad' and it sounds as though you're not quite finding that balance if you feel they're finding you annoying.

I don't think you're wrong per se, I just think it won't be doing you personally any favours, and it isn't generally the done thing to constantly complain about systems etc (rightly or wrongly) - so you may as well save your breath for the big stuff and it'll make things easier at work.

Are the things you're moaning about actually within the control of those you're moaning to?

If it's a big organisation or something like the nhs it won't be possible for them to change things like systems just like that.

Do you ever offer a solution? Nothing more irritating than people who point out problems expecting someone else to solve them when it's not in their gift to do so.

I can be similar to you op, I see ways to do things better and want to push the envelope to achieve more...BUT...
if management dont listen or want those suggestions I'm afraid you will be seen as a trouble maker.
similar to pp there was another colleague who was always nosing in to ways things were done and "innovating" new things, it was a nightmare as the innovations weren't wanted or needed according to others. she was just ticking her own box. I know this sounds mean but she ended up bitter and laughed at, before retiring, she was not missed. most of it was down to her not having enough to do, is this the case for you?

It sounds like you need to be looking for more responsibility (would you be seen as a likely candidate for promotion if you have this rep thought?), or to move to a campaigning or more challenging role.

Communication is everything, if no one wants your changes, why suggest them? or you could work on your consensus building skills before and during meetings eg saying

• "that sounds tricky, have you thought about raising it at the next team meet?" if the answer is no, just leave it.
• wait till someone else makes the first suggestion.
• run your concerns past your lm.
• ask sensitively if managment are wanting feedback, if not, again, just leave it.
• run it past your colleagues eg "I'm worried I come accross as a massive pita in meetings, I thought you wanted these points raised but I'm going to take a step back, what does everyone think?
• maybe view this as opportunity to career-coach yourself eg consider the top 3 reasons why you are doing your job, whether your skills are being used, what is it that makes you want to push things all the time, some unfulfilled need for recognition? has it been a recurring pattern in your life and if so why? what would success look like and if its rarely achieved then why is that? are you unconsciously choosing unrealistic goals because of a saviour complex or an authority problem, or something else?
• is your communication style ok (maybe look up 'motivational interviewing techniques')

be honest with yourself, sorry if I sound harsh.

I still imagine the manager as someone who has an idea and works hard to make it a reality, not someone who turns up for the paycheck and has probably been beaten down by their own managers over the years.

Sometimes it's about headspace/bandwidth, OP. It isn't necessarily that the manager doesn't care about improving stuff (although that might be true in some cases) but they're probably working on a load of other issues/projects which may be at least as important or even more important than the changes that you are suggesting. You don't have the same perspective on the organisation that they do, so you may not be aware of some of the other priorities.

I get that it's discouraging for your suggestions to be ignored. It's highly likely that some of your feedback is valid. You just need to learn to filter it a bit so that people don't just roll their eyes and think @TalkLessSmileMorePlease is off on one again whenever you have a point to raise.

Would you say that you have a tendency to see things in quite black and white way, without many shades of grey?

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

Does no one else think there's a bigger issue with women (particularly those of the older generation) not wanting to question the knowledge of the (mostly male) management. Possibly also the older male management who are happy for us to do their scanning and take their calls but not as happy for us to question their abilities?

You know it is women before you that have spoken out in the past, to give you the more privileged starting point today than they ever had.

Obviously we have a way to go still, but do you think we have got this far because men decided they wanted gender equality, because men decided we need equal pay and to monitor gender pay gaps etc. You are not the first woman to have used your voice and I find your ageism insulting.

If your campaigning for no meat at school is an example of the causes you take up, I don’t find it hard to imagine that you are an unholy PITA at work. You need to stop speaking for others when they haven’t asked you to and probably don’t want you to. It doesn’t mean they are not as fearless as you, maybe it means that they pick their battles more carefully or more constructively.

Your approach is childish, you are not at school anymore and you are not going to get anything other than a bad reputation if you carry on as you are. Can you not find a more constructive platform to work towards solving issues rather than just moaning in an email once a month.

Your managers aren't able to just change everything willy nilly. Changing things is expensive, time consuming and disruptive and businesses require business cases for it for a reason. Changing a system is a massive project, not just something you do on a whim. Every system has issues and nothing will ever be perfect, and unfortunately 'i don't like using it' isn't a good enough reason to change it. If you want to make changes you have to demonstrate why it would be better for the business long term to make the disruption worth it.

I think you're trying to make something into a feminist issue when it isn't. I'd look down on a man behaving this way as well, and I know that because I've seen many of them do it.

Just try to chill a bit. You don't want to be THAT colleague that has alienated herself from all their workmates

I still imagine the manager as someone who has an idea and works hard to make it a reality, not someone who turns up for the paycheck and has probably been beaten down by their own managers over the years.

Why do you assume the manager doesn't have ideas and doesn't work hard?

Being in middle management can be really tough. You've got a team of people below you who expect you to make changes, but you've got your own managers above you who tell you "no".

I was in middle management for a few years and it was actually very demoralising - any ideas we had were shot down because senior management said no, but we had a whole group of people below us who'd blame us and get increasingly pissed off.

At £10 per hour I would just do your job and go home. Not everything needs to be fought over and improved. It's often not worth the stress.

Oh and your suggestion that your coworkers don't care about their jobs and just want to file their nails, but you are too 'passionate' for that, is patronising as hell.

Tbh OP, it doesn't sound like you're paid enough to be doing all of this and especially if it's damaging your reputation at work in doing so. Just accept that this is what it is. I don't think you overall sound exhausting because some orgs do really need to be dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming but your efforts aren't appreciated here.

I can see why your referral spreadsheet got shut down tbh. Healthcare doesn't have a spreadsheet culture like corporates do. It takes someone to set it up and if you're not used to shared data sources it's prob viewed as a faff. I'd have suggested copying the relevant person in the other dept into any referral emails and/or making one admin , (if there is one)in each dept , responsible for making sure the admin in the other dept is aware re any referral..

There is a huge difference between being bold and being a PITA. How you phrase and raise your concerns goes a long way to how they are received by others as well.

@CSIblonde we work with spreadsheets all the time and are all in the same company so I don't see why it couldn't be kept on the shared drive with all the others? The managers suggestion of 'call eachother to see who has done it' seems bonkers compared to having a spreadsheet to check who has done it? This also saves emails and phone calls between two part time admin.
Not nhs private btw.