Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

You sound like you're meant to do another role!

Business Analyst, Process Analyst, Change Management.

Their job is to find issues in process/systems, streamline them to make them better, save time and money.

In IT, they gather the requirements for a change or new system.

Look into those. Most you can do a fairly short course and take a certification exam.

The reaction from the OP does smack of immaturity or bitterness. Not just about the meat in the canteen, but the remark about filing nails for example. There are many stages in between and the OP needs to learn to moderate somewhat at both extremes.

You can rock boats and make changes really efficiently without acting like Lisa Simpson. But the most important skills in doing so are things like collaborating, treating people with respect, listening to other people’s needs, being able to critically evaluate yourself and your work honestly. None of those are evident from the way OP is talking.

Keep your head below the parapet, don’t rock the boat, never try to change things or you will be sacked

I don't think anyone is saying that, but if you constantly complain and make "suggestions" that don't actually make any business sense, people stop listening to you.

I had a colleague like this one, she was absolutely lovely but there was ALWAYS something that needed fixing in her eyes.

After a while, people just thought "oh, so and so is on one again" and she was ignored, even though some of her ideas were really good - they were just presented in the wrong way and people got fed up of it.

@Breakingplaid

I know people find me irritating sometimes and I often look at others and wonder how they can be so determined to preserve the status quo rather than make an effort to improve life. I suppose it’s just different personality types. But, the pita people get important things done. Like abolishing slavery, like votes for women, like legalising homosexuality, the list goes on and on. The world is a far, far better place for people who speak up and say “we can make this better”. We shouldn’t be afraid to rock the boat. Some boats need rocking.

Is there not something missing here. These people didn’t just fire an email and say this needs to change, why not do it this way. We can all do that.

These people went and made it happen. They took years of struggle, work, effort, focus and they made it happen, bringing others to their cause. Doing the work. Focused on their one cause.

The op fires an email off every few weeks. Sometimes with a suggestion sometimes not. And. Then she finds the next boat to rock. A different one.

Keep your head below the parapet, don’t rock the boat, never try to change things or you will be sacked, you sound really irritating etc etc. Be quiet and know your place.

No that's not what people mean. By all means flag up when something isn't right, or things aren't working properly, but the OP is taking it upon herself to put in a written complaint, that's not even her complaint to her seniors every month ffs! That's going to get bloody tedious. Things can't always be perfect in life and sometimes we do just have to deal with it.

@ajandjjmum

Are you Meghan Markle?

I thought this! ;) ...{So say the washing up liquid thing she dis was actually a class effort though?}

Most people just want to go to work, get paid then go home and forget about it - and not care enough to rock the boat over things that are probably inconsequential to them in the bigger picture. I would find you as exhausting as you admit to be :)

But it's not a great way to get buy-in, announcing you have The Answer as if nobody else could have any opinions - you may get a better outcome if you ask for people's ideas and develop a solution together (this should be being done by your manager if there is an issue tbh).

Exactly this.

Also, as a manager, staff who come up with Great Ideas often haven't thought about the wider implications. The idea might affect other parts of the operation. Sometimes the idea is good, but resources (including staff resources) need to be used elsewhere as more of a priority. Finally, I also find that often the Great Ideas people aren't doing their actual, assigned tasks properly, thus creating a headache for me & the team, while they keep generating those Great Ideas.

If I was getting monthly emails telling me what latest change you'd want to implement, I'd have very limited time for you.

You need to work with people & as part of the wider picture.

Senior management are paid enough to put up with a monthly email from a mouthy little shit like me. I don't feel bad for them.

Oh Christ 🤦🏻‍♀️

You sound like you’d make a good union rep or employee representative! Have you ever thought of that?

But, the pita people get important things done. Like abolishing slavery, like votes for women, like legalising homosexuality, the list goes on and on. The world is a far, far better place for people who speak up and say “we can make this better”. We shouldn’t be afraid to rock the boat. Some boats need rocking.

Righto. First time I've seen implementing spreadsheets compared with abolishing slavery and other important social issues.

The op fires an email off every few weeks. Sometimes with a suggestion sometimes not. And. Then she finds the next boat to rock. A different one.

Exactly. The OP doesn't just have one or two things she is determined to have changed in the workplace and keeps trying to make it happen, they are just sending a different complaint, around once a month!

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.

I just wanted to say I think this is GREAT!!! Well done you! Especially as you did these things when you were a child :)

@1AngelicFruitCake -- it's not about dictating what other people eat, I don't know what OP's reasons were then but a few good reasons for getting school canteens to ban meat are about stopping/reducing the unnecessary slaughter of innocent animals and the destruction of the planet. Also another study just came out the other day about how bad meat is for human health! Schools should be encouraging people to eat less meat!

I agree with you though that maybe OP should work in a management role :)

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@TalkLessSmileMorePlease - I think it's good that you stand up to people and make suggestions. I fall into the category of women who don't want to be a 'bother' but I don't want to keep being like this - I want to learn to be more assertive and stop being afraid of conflict!

So maybe it's true that you need to pick your battles (just to not exhaust yourself) but I just wanted to say that i think you should keep being assertive and keep raising issues as much as you want to. That's the only way we can change things in a workplace/in this world!!

I don't think you need to shut up but you do need stop screaming into the void as it were because you do seem to be being ignored.

If you want to change the way things are done, the best people to speak to and get on your side are your COLLEAGUES, not the managers. The more people agree something could do with changing, and are able to present an alternative, the more likely it will be changed.

This is very good advice - have you tried it? Also would give you differenet views on the area things which other jobs may be more aware of than yourself and solutions you may not have considered.

Plus pick your battles - not everything is worth fighting for.

I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it.

I think its admirable that you care and I think everyone should strive to be more like that.

However, just ask yourself as to whether you are regularly raising problems for them, or regularly presenting solutions (your spreadhseet idea sounds like the latter but just didnt go down well).

It sounds like you work in admin or operations? I would love it if our admin team took initiative like this. However, a few times they have, and sometimes what seems like a good idea to one person can often just end up creating a further layer of admin/'chore' for someone else whose then actual job is sidetracked with filling out forms and spreadsheets tracking their job (I can think of a few examples of systems in my current work where I can't help but feel things could be streamlined, but people kept having 'ideas' and now I have to fill out a myriad of necessary steps just to open a new job with a client). Obviously these things are important, and I'm not passing judgement on your ideas, but maybe try and reduce the amount of them by fully interrogating whether you think this will solve the problem form others' perspective, not just your own, and whether you are presenting solutions or just 'X system is outdated and needs replacing'. If you're having them as regularly as you say, either management are so unbelievably incompetent, or you're suggesting small incremental changes rather than bigger picture (and its the small icnremental suggestions that are annoying)

If you think things need a massive overhaul rather than just small incremental changes...do some research into systems, and put together a short proposal/business plan for management, showing how a joined up approach can solve certain pains and result in more time available for x,y,z (whatever earns the money).

As for the 'middle aged women' speaking up point- I guess everyone's answer to that is going to be anecdotal, but I am only 30 and can definitely think of several middle aged women as HR or office managers that have absolutely no qualms about sharing their ideas (again, often another blimmin spreadsheet to fill out which is where it gets annoying. Some have been very good ideas though, and well pitched).

I admire your feistiness - I was like this in my 20s. But possibly the people around you just like moaning, and don't really want anything changed. Like a friend moaning about a BF they actually don't want to finish with; they just want to vent.

With your zeal and confidence, you take these vents as a sign that people are genuinely distressed, and only not complaining because they are too shy/meek/scared. And you jump in to rescue them. And then everyone is like, "Huh?"

I think you should look for another job, at a much more collaborative (younger) company filled with similarly impassioned people, all working towards an important cause. And read "The Circle" by Dave Eggers. I think you'd like it.

Are you bored though in your current job? Are you looking for more of a challenge and perhaps feeling frustrated that your role doesn't give you enough?

I know you mentioned you like your job but have you outgrown it intellectually? Or just in general?

I can be a bit like this, but only when I'm bored. I need to be stimulated at work otherwise I become a pain in the ass!!

Oh - and just to add - some people do want to moan, they don't want you to come and rescue them with a solution because then you take their purpose away and they can't moan. Don't always assume that people want your help, as honourable as your intentions may be. You'll just get their backs up.

Sorry - just to add another thought! Agree with a PP upthread who suggested "pick your battles."

Some hills are worth dying on, some aren't. You've got to ask yourself what good it will do you to fight these little causes, if you're repeatedly ignored. It's really not doing your reputation any good, and it's making you feel bad in the process. If you really don't like the ethos or the way things are done perhaps it is time to look elsewhere. You're not going to change the organisation by drilling away at it. Ask yourself what you want, and whether this position (enjoyable though it is) is right for you going forward.

I applaud your wish to get improvements. However, perhaps given there are those who hide their lethargy or somehow only want to do something interesting or that they think will make them look good, I think a different approach may need to be tried. Talk with your line manager about what alternatives there are, including getting support from those who don't speak in team meetings.

Emails are ignored by some people, one of the disadvantages of some people or all wfh at present is that 'doorstepping' or other face to face conversation is not available.

Good luck.

Some posters have said they do not think you are in the right role, and I agree. If you struggle with the idea of a hierarchy and have seen many small business start ups I suggest you go self employed and found your own company. Then you will be able to decide for yourself how to run things. This is what I did.

[quote TalkLessSmileMorePlease]@Woebegonad I have no time mindset for that to be honest. If you hate your job, look for another, if you think you're worth more money then ask for it, if you're bored, find something to do. Maybe that's why I struggle with them.[/quote]
You need to be working in the private, not the public sector. The public sector have no appetite for innovation and improvement, if you were putting forward ideas in the private sector they’d be looked at seriously.
I say this having worked 30 years in the public sector

Righto. First time I've seen implementing spreadsheets compared with abolishing slavery and other important social issues

Yup. And apparantly all it took was firing through and email with the idea. Who knew.