Or should I just shut up at work?

[TalkLessSmileMorePlease]

I know that women are always told to be bold but I'm worrying that I'm annoying people. I've always been on to speak out, I guess it's my personality, I'm not loud but I find it hard to hide how I feel. When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.
I've been in my job about three years. I have no managerial responsibilities. I love where I work and what I do but there's loads of systems that just don't work well. I write emails to the management probably once a month or less. I speak out at team meetings. If others mention their concerns to me I sometimes raise it to someone but I never mention names. I do this because women (in admin especially) don't seem to like to being 'a bother.'
The way I see it I feel so passionately about wanting to find a solution that I can't not speak out. I get so frustrated with everyone moaning about things and never looking at solutions! Do they want a solution or do they just want something to moan about?
The downside is I always feel like the mouthy one. The mangers barely conceal their frustration when sending the 'this is just the way it is' emails. I then get frustrated because they're not the ones working with the shit, outdated systems. They don't understand the reality. I make it clear that I don't think I know it all or know better but I ask them if there are alternatives we can look into.
My direct line manager is supportive and tells me to keep raising stuff. However if everyone has issues with something and I raise it and no one backs me up or even speaks in team meetings, I look like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like some colleagues who do the bare minimum and regularly do less than me are actually more respected than me because they don't cause trouble.
I wish I wasn't like this and I could just file my nails and dream about what I was having for tea but I can't help it. Sorry I usually write more eloquently but this is rushed during a lunch break.

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

Does no one else think there's a bigger issue with women (particularly those of the older generation) not wanting to question the knowledge of the (mostly male) management. Possibly also the older male management who are happy for us to do their scanning and take their calls but not as happy for us to question their abilities?

This sounds a bit ... odd. Presumably you are paid to do their scanning and take their phone calls, but questioning their ability is not strictly a part of your job description?!

I agree with a pp about headspace and things managers have to deal with that often staff have no idea about. I have a mouthy person in my team and a few weeks ago when he was giving me his vocal opinion on how annual leave should be organised (to benefit himself of course, under the guise of more efficiency) I was sitting there thinking “if you knew how hard I had to fight last week to keep you from a redundancy notice, you wouldn’t be faffing about next Christmas, you tone-deaf muppet”

@Pukkatea to be honest none of my colleagues are like that, they all work very hard. I was just trying to imagine the extreme alternative to my approach. As obviously I am wrong about my approach!

Bluntness really hit the nail on the head here.

It’s not really realistic for you to address all those issues and present a fully formed plan, but what you can do is point out to management that we have been getting a lot of complaints about lost referrals. It would be helpful if there was a way for the two departments to coordinate. Then it’s managements job to decide to evaluate and if they pursue to find out a way to coordinate that protects patient data.

That is the real crux here. Data protection is ridiculously important and it’s very difficult to strike the proper balance between protection and use.

[quote TalkLessSmileMorePlease]@Pukkatea to be honest none of my colleagues are like that, they all work very hard. I was just trying to imagine the extreme alternative to my approach. As obviously I am wrong about my approach! [/quote]
Why do you need to approach anything at all?

I don't get it. Just do your job and go home!

@1AngelicFruitCake

The meat in the canteen was admirable but annoying! Why should you get to dictate what everyone else eats?! Sorry, not important but my first thought!😄

I think it’s great you feel so passionately. Why don’t you go into management? I’ve worked in management before and found enthusiastic, ideas people are great in theory but not understanding of the work involved, not willing to fully commit to one thing and see it through. Could you focus on one thing to change?

Why should you get to dictate that someone dies for your meals? That's a lot more serious and controlling (and discriminatory - it's called speciesism, and it's philosophically identical to the other -isms) than stopping people doing it. Your right to choose what to put in your mouth should end where someone else's body begins.

You say you get frustrated with others moaning about things but never looking at solutions. But are you any different, really? You basically want others to solve the problems, maybe because you are not in a position to do so, but perhaps they can't or won't for some reason, and you seemingly won't accept that. That's the theme from your 'ban meat' campaign at school, to your 'change the computer sytems' issue now.
Also those who don't complain aren't necessarily scared to do so, maybe they just don't think there is a problem, or are able to accept that it cannot be changed. Maybe they just don't care enough to get worked up about it.

We have a lot of strongly opinionated people at work, it's the nature of the job which attracts people with this character trait. Nothing wrong with that at all, but often the loudest complainers are seen as those who will moan about anything, which makes it hard for them to be taken seriously. They never come up with realistic solutions, or listen to the reasons why some things cannot be changed (often cost, sometimes other factors beyond the individual manager or companies control). And they always think they are right and everyone else is just being difficult or weak.

My suggestion would be to give feedback in a constructive way. Focus on the particular issue, don't link it to other things. Try to find solutions rather than demanding someone else does, and listen to the person's response. Not everything can or will be changed because you think it should be, you may have to learn to accept that, particularly at work (unless it's causing harm of course)

Sorry OP but you seem overly invested and a bit controlling in general. I am very laidback and all of this would give me a headache to be honest.

Also I stand by my vegan primary school idea. There are specialist behavioural schools in the US that have seen a remarkable change in dissocial and challenging behaviour since making the change to plant based meals. I would like to hear some of your ideas at 10 and judge you on it now. I was 10!

Is anyone in the organisation leading on process/business improvement? I worked in this field for a while and I can tell you it's bloody hard work. It's critical to have top management on board (they rarely are). I worked with people who didn't want change - they were afraid that change would mean they couldn't keep doing the job that they were constantly moaning about! One woman refused to go over her processes with me unless she had someone else in the room with us, as I was her manager at the time and she thought I ought to know how she did her job - even although she had developed the process

When process improvement is done well, it is empowering for everyone involved. Look around for allies in the organisation, or in another organisation. Or ask for specific training in process improvement (look for Lean, 'Yellow Belt' or 'Green Belt').

Sorry but you sound a nightmare tbh

What i learnt very early on at work is dont take on other peoples battles as when the shit hits the fan the fuckers wont back you up.

There are always people who have problems but find a confident person (or mouthy if you look at it that way) to fight their problems for them whilst they sit back and look like a model employee who doesnt rock the boat.

Whilst you think you are doing a good thing standing up for colleagues you are actually sticking your head above the parapet and being put into the crosshairs of upper management.

Actually I've changed my opinion you do sound exhausting.

Accept that you are not going to succeed in making changes in your current job. Look for a role that seeks someone who is a leader, someone who embraces and manages change. No use having all the drive and enthusiasm for making a positive difference if you work in an organisation that isn’t interested.

I should say that the thinking behind formal process improvement is that everyone involved gets to participate. It's not done TO people, instead people work things out for themselves, often at a group level.

So the OP would not be telling anyone what the solution is, and imposing it on anyone, they would just be leading a project where all parties work together, and, with so many different perspectives, can get a holistic view of what will work best for the organisation and its 'customers'. It's all fact-based, data-based and can get quite scientific, but ultimately can be hugely beneficial unless sabotaged by the nay-sayers .

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease

Also I stand by my vegan primary school idea. There are specialist behavioural schools in the US that have seen a remarkable change in dissocial and challenging behaviour since making the change to plant based meals. I would like to hear some of your ideas at 10 and judge you on it now. I was 10!

But you still stand by it now?

I got up to I know, I sound exhausting. and then cringed a bit.

@TalkLessSmileMorePlease I get that, I'm a keen 'improvement project' sort of person too and it is hard to strike a balance and frustrating to not be in a position to affect change when you want to. I just think you're being a bit unfair to management whose hands will be as tied as yours are. Change management is a whole business role for a reason! It's super complex (not that I don't think many organisations make it unnecessarily complex, but I've long accepted that even if I think everything would be better if done my way, others don't seem to agree ha).

OP, if your username is a reference to what I think it is, just remember that not everybody can be in the room where it happens

Honestly, I think you need to stay in your own lane at times, and knowing when can be difficult.

I don’t know what the wording/tone of these emails is like, but do you even get a response?

You seem to have quite derogatory opinions about managers in your organisation (I’ve gathered they’re all male, pale, stale, lazy, don’t know how to do their jobs, and are overpaid), plus some about your team members. You obviously don’t respect them, and maybe the feeling is mutual?

I think that if you find you have need to complain once a month, then maybe this organisation isn’t for you, and you might be happier elsewhere? I think most people would have very rare cause to write a complaint email across years of work, let alone approximately once a month.

I don’t see this as a sex issue, more of knowing what’s an appropriate way to communicate. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about that, too.

Incidentally, I used to work with someone like you. He was a great fan of emailing management to tell them how everyone was upset with X, Y, and Z when actually, we were all pretty happy with the bits of our job that didn’t involve dealing with him!

This behaviour isn’t benefiting you, your colleagues, or your managers, so why keep it up?

I’m a bit like you. What I’ve done is rather than immediately bringing issues up with my manager I write them down in my own document in preparation for the three monthly development meeting I have with him. At that point I reassess all my ideas and decide which ones I really care about and want to bring up. I try to come with an idea of how to solve things but not complete so there is space for them to develop and perfect the idea with me in meeting. Writing it up as a formal project plan (aims, risks, stakeholders etc) also really helped management take me seriously and start giving me more responsibility. I think you need to channel your energy better and focus on what’s important to you while thinking on how the company will benefit and focus on that (will make process x quicker so customers are happy). Good luck!

I'm now wondering if you are my ex colleague who had a passion for spreadsheets about every single details- most of which were binned off the moment she left...

If you want to change the way things are done, the best people to speak to and get on your side are your COLLEAGUES, not the managers. The more people agree something could do with changing, and are able to present an alternative, the more likely it will be changed.

Go into management
Change things
I like people who speak up and want to make things better

When I was at primary school I tried to get a campaign going to ban meat in the cafeteria (this was the early 90's) and I started writing to my MP about overfishing when I was 11. I know, I sound exhausting.

I realise you were a child at the time, but this makes me think perhaps you bulldoze over what other people actually want. You disnt like meat, so it should be banned and never mind every else!?

Yes, people do like to just complain sometimes. Sometimes managers hands are tied due to budget constraints or approval from their seniors, and sometimes people prefer to raise things with their manager in their own way.

I do understand your mindset on the complaining vs finding a, solution I'm mostly the same, but I really can't stand it when a colleague decides they're everyone's unelected spokesperson and starts interfering.

You sound a lot like me. I think I am just a born campaigner and was also like this at school. I particularly can’t bear to see an injustice and find it impossible to stand by.
Luckily I run my own business so its mostly easy to implement improvements. Still, I’m often surprised my my employees lack of enthusiasm for change even when it is unarguably beneficial to them.
The bigger the organisation the more the natural resistance to change so maybe you should think about changing jobs to somewhere more suited to your talents. Could you set up a business of your own even?
Lots of people probably do find you irritating, and of course you can tone it down but you’re not going to change your intrinsic nature and I’m sure you want to feel valued. If I were you I would work on it from two angles- improve your diplomatic skills so you present it in the best way possible (and definitely concentrate on important issues only) at the same time, try to find a role where your ideas and innovation can shine as a real strength.

Have you thought about becoming a union rep? At least then you'll have the backing of a union behind you, and you'll be able to put your negotiation skills and passion to good use! I loved being a rep, it was fantastic. Stressful of course and frustrating, but it felt good to be able to help on various levels.

Obviously, it depends on your union (some workplace branches are a bit wet, or have their own divisive issues) but it could be worth looking into.

You sound a lot like me...even down to the campaigning about meat. I'm sure I was a very annoying child. 😂

@Bluntness100 has provided a great response to your spreadsheet suggestion and set of follow up questions, OP. Are you going to respond to any of them? How fully formed are your ideas when you raise them?