Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

(to be honest though I have probably suffered much more from bitchy women than I ever have from predatory men)

Never suffered from bitchy women. Practically every woman I’ve met in my life (I’m 57) has been lovely and supportive.

And l never use the word ‘bitchy’ either. The fact that you’re using this word says quite a lot.

I've never met a woman who called other women bitchy who wasn't bitchy themselves, or if not just very competitive.

All the women I know get on very well with other women.

Never come across bitchy women. Would you use this word to describe men? No - thought not! Says it all.

Tatiana and Coffee,

Yep l agree👏🏼

Teenage boys can be pretty horrible but you would hope that they would grow out of it.

I asked my DD (14) yesterday if she's ever felt uncomfortable whilst walking to and from school etc. She said "only by teenage boys, not older men". That both reassures and worries me at the same time, given she's surrounded by these boys every day at school and they're part of her peer group.

I have been followed home twice on nights out, one was very frightening as he approached me by coming up right behind me. I've been groped 4 times, one man just put his hand up my skirt and squeezed me, I was so shocked , I didn't know what to do, I ended up shooting after him but I was extremely upset, I tried not to show it. A man once tried to pull me onto his lap on the bus, a group of men barking and hissing at me, asking me "how much", older men saying really inappropriate things to me when I was a teen, a older guy asking me if I was still a virgin when I was 14...the list is endless, I didn't even know some of it was harassment till I was older and really started to think about those horrible experiences. They just make me angry. How dare they think it is acceptable. How were they raised to be so disgusting.

My own father is lovely and respectful to woman , as are my brothers and my own DH, I know that there are good men out there but unfortunately, that's not the point ...its about the extraordinary high percentage of woman who have been sexually harassed/abused.I honestly don't know one single woman who hasn't.

I can't believe some people are saying they've never met bitchy women! I wish I could say I haven't but I always run into them unfortunately... I am definitely friendly polite and positive as I can be but I have met horrible women in every job I've had, when I used to have nights out I would often get women starting fights on me and even at the bus stop recently a random woman loudly botched about me!

@Sweet666

I can't believe some people are saying they've never met bitchy women! I wish I could say I haven't but I always run into them unfortunately... I am definitely friendly polite and positive as I can be but I have met horrible women in every job I've had, when I used to have nights out I would often get women starting fights on me and even at the bus stop recently a random woman loudly botched about me!

I've met horrible people of both sexes in my life. I don't think it's a gendered issue, personally. Men can be awful, so can some women.

People can be horrible without being 'bitchy' - bitchy is specific.

I've met bitchy women, but tbh I've met waaaay more bitchy men. They usually get a different label for it though.

Now I live in the middle of nowhere but mid teens to 30s I've been groped, flashed, forcibly kissed. Taken advantage of when I've been drinking.

I'm mouthy I remember standing outside Genoa train station in Italy (backpacking solo) telling a guy who didn't like the word no to FUCK OFF. Police marched over and I departed. I think as women we're often taught not to make a fuss; I have no fear of making a fuss I dread to think of what could of happened to my younger self if I did.

Sexual harrassement started when I was about 8. When I complained, I was told to shut up/stop causing trouble. I didn't shut up, so was labelled a troublemaker. Conversations with other women indicate that's not an abnormal experience, either. It's sadly rather too common.

I'm 50 now. There's been harrassment sporadically throughout my life. Off the top of my head: a few years ago when I was out walking with my teen, and a bloke in a soft top honked his car horn and then made sexually explicit gestures.

Also threats of rape (again, a few years ago) when I was walking home from the local market, pulling a wheeled shopper trolley behind me. Broad daylight. Told husband about that incident (and the one with our teen) when I arrived home. He was horrified that anyone would do that, but understood why I chose to pretend I couldn't hear them. I'm comfortable telling people to fuck off/get lost if needs be, but there are times when instinct tells one it's safer to stay quiet/walk away/not engage. That was one of them.

Chatting with female friends over the years (age ranging from 20 years younger to 20 years older, so a good cross-section of age groups), it's clear that not one of them hasn't experienced some form of sexual harassment/abuse at some point in their lives. Of the hundreds of women that would include, not a single one of them had never experienced sexual harassment or abuse. Which is shit, really.

I was going to agree with a pp that it’s a relief to get older and not get this sort of ‘attention’ but actually I had a creepy younger bloke pretend to run after me laughing and going ‘woohoo’ when I was out for a run. I’m 58. It was disconcerting and upsetting. I do feel braver now about shouting fuck off, than I did when younger. Also had some bloke rubbing up behind me on the tube last time I was on one.
I also don’t think I know any woman that hasn’t experienced lots of harassment.

Is anyone else reading this and just remembering more and more disgusting little incidents at different ages? Eg, I’d forgotten crotch grabbing and my years using the London Underground (truly vile on occasion - the penis grinding into your back and the revolting leering; having to switch carriages to feel safe, avoiding eye contact, pretending you’re not getting off the train and then at the very last minute subtly getting your ticket /Oyster ready and then running for your life, etc etc) Grim.

But the starkest difference for me is this: walking to and from primary and senior school as a child was often SO HORRIBLE versus walking my children to school in my mid 40s.

These days no one follows me, makes lewd comments or makes me feel uncomfortable. If it wasn’t for the fact that - mostly but not always - younger women are subject to massive sexism everywhere they go then it would almost be liberating.

Re the 'bitchy' comment (awful word) on the many occasions I've been sexually harassed, assaulted and abused by men, it's women who have been my saviours.

For the past week, small experiences that I tried to put aside quickly have come back to me:

• feeling carefree in Spain on holiday at 19 with friends and hearing a knocking on a window and seeing a man's naked body masturbating out the window at us. Our high disappeared instantly;
• the light touch of the same hands on my bum over and over whilst very drunk in a club and despite moving away repeatedly;
• being followed off a bus at 3am almost to my front door by a man who had come and sat next to me on the bus, becoming almost frantic with panic, whilst trying to remain firm and polite;
• the endless inappropriate, mildly threatening times I have tried to go about my day and been looked up or down and disrespected and put in my place

And that's just the sexual harassment. And I know I'm one of the lucky ones.

Solidarity to all you courageous women out there. You are not alone. Male violence truly is a scourge (image a world without it!) and it is never your fault.

At first I couldn’t think of one single thing but then I thought carefully. First was when I was six and a boy put his hand up my skirt, then when I was 12 and a boy launched himself on me for my first snog. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to do. Then when I was 16/17 I was in the pub (I know, I know) and a man pulled down my boob tube exposing my breasts. I was quite proud of myself though because before pulling up the top I slapped him square in the face!! He bloody deserved it. Those are the earliest I can think of. There’s been all the usual wolf whistling etc, not cool.

@BigPaperBag

At first I couldn’t think of one single thing but then I thought carefully. First was when I was six and a boy put his hand up my skirt, then when I was 12 and a boy launched himself on me for my first snog. I was so shocked I didn’t know what to do. Then when I was 16/17 I was in the pub (I know, I know) and a man pulled down my boob tube exposing my breasts. I was quite proud of myself though because before pulling up the top I slapped him square in the face!! He bloody deserved it. Those are the earliest I can think of. There’s been all the usual wolf whistling etc, not cool.

More will come to you. I bet you'll remember lots of incidents over time. We are socially trained to minimalise this. And that sends the message to men that it's OK when it isn't. I'm not suggesting we need to feel traumatised and abused and dwell on it and let it take over our lives if a man touches us or exposes himself. I'm from the generation who laughed at flashers and I am glad that we took this dismissive approach to them. It made us feel string and safe (even if we weren't) which I'd rather feel 24/7 than low-grade fear. But we should have the right to make this behaviour absolutely unacceptable, to kick up a fuss every time it happens. To name and shame. Until it becomes as demonised as drink-driving which used to be absolutely acceptable and cool in 1970s.

I've met horrible people of both sexes in my life. I don't think it's a gendered issue, personally. Men can be awful, so can some women.

But there are variations of 'horrible'. I've never been harassed, leered at, catcalled, raped, had my breasts or my backside grabbed, been stalked, rubbed up against, followed, or for that matter had my head smashed down a door resulting in concussion or burned by cigarettes - by any woman.

Men have done all the above to me.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I've met horrible people of both sexes in my life. I don't think it's a gendered issue, personally. Men can be awful, so can some women.

But there are variations of 'horrible'. I've never been harassed, leered at, catcalled, raped, had my breasts or my backside grabbed, been stalked, rubbed up against, followed, or for that matter had my head smashed down a door resulting in concussion or burned by cigarettes - by any woman.

Men have done all the above to me.

You're right there are huge variations.

I've never been physically or sexually harmed in any way, thankfully.

I have however been emotionally harmed and bullied by women.

Like you say, different types of horrible.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I'm sorry for your experiences, they sound awful.